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  • IFing - A little confused

    So, I have been eating with a 6-4 hour window everyday for the past 2 months. But it seems that I still have to eat a small amount of food just to see any type of weight loss. I want to get my nutrients in, but it seems I'm not be able to do that and lose weight with the IF method. Back in the fall I ate 1 time a day, and the weight dropped off. Around the holidays, I fell completely off the wagon. I got back on in June, and have only lost 11 lbs since then...

    Stats:
    Female - 5"2' - 149lbs - 31%BF

    Typicaly day without lifting: - This is when I see a little weight loss... like in 4 days, I'll lose a pound.
    Break - fast between 1-2 PM
    3oz homemade Jerky
    Small handful of nuts (to get the fat intake)
    This will almost always hold me over until dinner

    Dinner - between 5:30 - 6:30PM
    4-6oz portein (steak, chicken, pork chops, ground beef, etc...)
    .5 cup of veggies (red/green peppers, green beans w. butter, etc..)

    Typical day - with lifting: - This is when I don't see any weight loss
    Break - fast between 1-2 PM
    3oz Jerky
    Small handful of nuts (to get the fat intake)

    Dinner
    4-6oz portein (steak, chicken, pork chops, etc...)
    .5 cup of veggies (red/green peppers, green beans, etc..)
    Bowl of salad mix w. shred carrots and radish - 2tbsp of Blue Cheese dressing
    Half an apple


    I never eat after dinner.
    I walk briskly for 2.5 miles a day, spread through out the day
    2 days a week I lift - and this is when I usually eat the bigger meal at dinner. But then the next day the scale hasn't budged.

    So, Is it possible that I should only be eating 1 meal a day... or should I bump it up and eat 3x a day? Should I not lift until I get down to an ideal weight with the method of lose the fat first, then build the muscle? But then I would still have to continue eating the small meals.

    EDIT: I just went into Fitday and inputted a typical - smaller day.
    I show that I intake:
    1218 Calories
    90.9g Fat (66%)
    26.4g Carbs (8%)
    76.1g Protein (25%)

    This actually looks pretty good, no?
    Last edited by croí; 08-09-2011, 05:08 AM.

  • #2
    Why are you eating so many nuts? They're pretty high in omega-6 and so are not the best source of fat. Eat some animal fat.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by marqueemoon View Post
      Why are you eating so many nuts? They're pretty high in omega-6 and so are not the best source of fat. Eat some animal fat.
      I am eating 1 small handful a day... maybe 10-15? if that. I could eat more meat during my first small meal, but that would increase the calories even more.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by croí View Post
        I am eating 1 small handful a day... maybe 10-15? if that. I could eat more meat during my first small meal, but that would increase the calories even more.
        Yes I read your initial post wrong and thought you were eating them twice a day. Still you might try replacing the nuts with meat (sorry there's no way to type that that doesn't sound vaguely obscene).
        I mean, nuts aren't terrible but they shouldn't be what you're eating as your main source of fat. Saturated fat is good for you.
        Also 1 pound in 4 days is a perfectly reasonable rate of weight loss, especially for a small female. Maybe you need to adjust your expectations. I don't mean that to sound rude, it's just that it really isn't an abnormally slow rate of loss.

        Comment


        • #5
          I do think there's a trend of "I'm not losing weight... and I eat nuts" in this forum. I'm not for advocating eliminating things entirely (like fruit, etc) but I also don't ever eat nuts, never developed a taste for them, but once I ate an entire bag of walnuts in one sitting. Those things are crazy easy to over-eat.

          Are you tracking your weight daily? that's also not a very good idea... you mention you don't lose weight on the days you lift... uh, you're building muscle

          I don't think eating once a day is going to solve it. I think your meals (especially your fast-breaking meal) are a little... odd, jerky and nuts is survival food... eat a regular meal. Lifting is to build muscle mass and re-shape your body, if the scale doesn't move it doesn't mean no change has taken place.

          I think it's been 8, maybe 10 months since my weight has seriously fluctuated. I seem to be "stuck" at around 150/155 (male - 5'7) but my body composition has certainly changed and I have more visible muscle now. My legs in particular, I've gained muscle mass in them, so while the scale reads the same, my body is not the same.

          Weigh yourself maybe once every two weeks if you must.

          Are you doing any type of sprinting also?
          I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
            I do think there's a trend of "I'm not losing weight... and I eat nuts" in this forum. I'm not for advocating eliminating things entirely (like fruit, etc) but I also don't ever eat nuts, never developed a taste for them, but once I ate an entire bag of walnuts in one sitting. Those things are crazy easy to over-eat.

            Are you tracking your weight daily? that's also not a very good idea... you mention you don't lose weight on the days you lift... uh, you're building muscle

            I don't think eating once a day is going to solve it. I think your meals (especially your fast-breaking meal) are a little... odd, jerky and nuts is survival food... eat a regular meal. Lifting is to build muscle mass and re-shape your body, if the scale doesn't move it doesn't mean no change has taken place.

            I think it's been 8, maybe 10 months since my weight has seriously fluctuated. I seem to be "stuck" at around 150/155 (male - 5'7) but my body composition has certainly changed and I have more visible muscle now. My legs in particular, I've gained muscle mass in them, so while the scale reads the same, my body is not the same.

            Weigh yourself maybe once every two weeks if you must.

            Are you doing any type of sprinting also?
            I get what you're saying, I just really enjoy the small handful of nuts. And I stop myself at the 1 handful, cause yes, they are very easy to over eat. I have really cut back on fruit. To almost half an apple every 2 weeks, if that...
            For the breaking fast meal. I have been eating jerky and nuts.. cause I'm not real hungry at the time, so I can't fathom having a whole meal. I like not having to tote around food at work, heating it up.. and that type thing. So maybe I should just hold off and eat 1 meal?

            150 is an awesome weight for a male at 5' 7", but for a female, 5" shorter than you... I got some weight to lose. Perhaps I should not lift, until I get down to an ideal weight / BF ratio? Sprints are an every once and a while thing. I could prolly pick that up.

            I do get on the scale everyday, but mainly out of curiousity. I'm not obsessing. I look, and then I go about my day. But I do see it as a way to keep myself in check with how much I am eating. I'm 95% primal, with just 1 non-primal meal a week (usually Friday night).. but I think I do need to watch the intake of said Primal foods as well. Cause I do believe you can overdo a good thing.
            Last edited by croí; 08-09-2011, 06:37 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by marqueemoon View Post
              Yes I read your initial post wrong and thought you were eating them twice a day. Still you might try replacing the nuts with meat (sorry there's no way to type that that doesn't sound vaguely obscene).
              I mean, nuts aren't terrible but they shouldn't be what you're eating as your main source of fat. Saturated fat is good for you.
              Also 1 pound in 4 days is a perfectly reasonable rate of weight loss, especially for a small female. Maybe you need to adjust your expectations. I don't mean that to sound rude, it's just that it really isn't an abnormally slow rate of loss.
              I get you. I don't think I would say they are my main source of fat. I use coconut oil to cook my meats at night, I have butter with almost all my veggies. I just know jerky doesn't have much fat on it... so I figure to get fat in at that meal, I could eat a small handful of nuts.

              As far as the weight loss... I understand, I just remember the weight falling off back in the fall before I fell off the wagon. I went from 150 to 135 in a matter of 2-3 months. Maybe I just messed my body up, by falling off the wagon and going right back up?
              Last edited by croí; 08-09-2011, 06:47 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ok, I'm noticing another thing...

                Don't look upon weight lifting as a fat-loss tool. I mean, it can work towards that for sure (they say you 'burn more calories at rest' when you have more muscle, but I question those things) but not lifting because of the GOOD weight it adds on you doesn't make sense to me at all. Lifting strengthens your bones, joints, tendons, not to mention making your muscles stronger. Nobody should ever stop lifting. You can reduce how often you lift perhaps, maybe do a good strong session once a week as basic maintenance. You don't want your muscles to atrophy, even if as a female you don't have "big" musculature like some males can put on.

                When I mentioned my weight I wasn't complaining, I was attempting to show how even though the number is the same, my body is not the same. In my entire primal journey of almost two years I've "only" lost about 25-30lbs total on the scale, but I look different. I'm no longer soft and doughy, etc. If I never lost another pound on the scale I couldn't care less, provided my body was still making the changes that it's making.

                I do agree you have some weight to lose, but it's best to have changes in the way you look be more pertinent than just what that number says. That number is fickle.

                Lastly, realize that the only person in the world that cares about the number on the scale is you, so stop caring about it and focus instead on measurements, how your clothes fit, what the mirror tells you. If you could blink and look exactly as you want to look but the scale said you're 10lbs "heavier" would you really care? would you actually try to lose even more weight somehow in order to be able to tell others "I weigh 120lbs!" ?? Nobody cares about that. Others can only see what you look like. I'd much rather see a woman and say "hmm, she's fit!" not "I bet she weighs anywhere from 125 to 135, which for a 5'6' female is just about right!" Screw all that, it's silly.

                I'm sorry to be so blunt with this, but I think your priorities are a little skewed. If you're willing to give up lifting to get to X number on the scale, will you ever pick up a weight again or do any resistance training? perhaps not as you're associating it with weight gain, which in your mind is negative. Sprint uphill once a week, at least 5 times uphill, work up to 10 oh.. and eat some starch after surrounding that workout, not too much, just enough to have enough glycogen available for the endeavor of sprinting -- which, don't forget, is going to tell your body "ramp up that metabolism, we have some weight to lose"... and yeah, lift once a week at the very least.
                I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                  Ok, I'm noticing another thing...

                  Don't look upon weight lifting as a fat-loss tool. I mean, it can work towards that for sure (they say you 'burn more calories at rest' when you have more muscle, but I question those things) but not lifting because of the GOOD weight it adds on you doesn't make sense to me at all. Lifting strengthens your bones, joints, tendons, not to mention making your muscles stronger. Nobody should ever stop lifting. You can reduce how often you lift perhaps, maybe do a good strong session once a week as basic maintenance. You don't want your muscles to atrophy, even if as a female you don't have "big" musculature like some males can put on.

                  When I mentioned my weight I wasn't complaining, I was attempting to show how even though the number is the same, my body is not the same. In my entire primal journey of almost two years I've "only" lost about 25-30lbs total on the scale, but I look different. I'm no longer soft and doughy, etc. If I never lost another pound on the scale I couldn't care less, provided my body was still making the changes that it's making.

                  I do agree you have some weight to lose, but it's best to have changes in the way you look be more pertinent than just what that number says. That number is fickle.

                  Lastly, realize that the only person in the world that cares about the number on the scale is you, so stop caring about it and focus instead on measurements, how your clothes fit, what the mirror tells you. If you could blink and look exactly as you want to look but the scale said you're 10lbs "heavier" would you really care? would you actually try to lose even more weight somehow in order to be able to tell others "I weigh 120lbs!" ?? Nobody cares about that. Others can only see what you look like. I'd much rather see a woman and say "hmm, she's fit!" not "I bet she weighs anywhere from 125 to 135, which for a 5'6' female is just about right!" Screw all that, it's silly.

                  I'm sorry to be so blunt with this, but I think your priorities are a little skewed. If you're willing to give up lifting to get to X number on the scale, will you ever pick up a weight again or do any resistance training? perhaps not as you're associating it with weight gain, which in your mind is negative. Sprint uphill once a week, at least 5 times uphill, work up to 10 oh.. and eat some starch after surrounding that workout, not too much, just enough to have enough glycogen available for the endeavor of sprinting -- which, don't forget, is going to tell your body "ramp up that metabolism, we have some weight to lose"... and yeah, lift once a week at the very least.
                  No I completely understand what you're saying. It's not the number I'm worried about, it's the excess weight on my sides and thighs. I just remember reading somewhere you can't lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. So, lose the fat first then gain muscle mass. or something like that. I feel that I'm ok in the muscle department, but really need to work on losing the lovehandles and the layer of fat over my lover stomach. I don't want to become a body builder to accomplish this, ya know? And as Mark says, 80% of weight loss is what you eat. So, I guess I'm just trying to tweak that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by croí View Post
                    No I completely understand what you're saying. It's not the number I'm worried about, it's the excess weight on my sides and thighs. I just remember reading somewhere you can't lose weight and gain muscle at the same time. So, lose the fat first then gain muscle mass. or something like that. I feel that I'm ok in the muscle department, but really need to work on losing the lovehandles and the layer of fat over my lover stomach. I don't want to become a body builder to accomplish this, ya know? And as Mark says, 80% of weight loss is what you eat. So, I guess I'm just trying to tweak that.
                    Forgive me for assuming wrong.

                    Yeah, actively gaining muscle and hoping to lose fat is tough... BUT! this is for males (usually, calm down primal women..) that want to bulk up, meaning make their muscles visibly bigger while also hoping to remove that belly. In your case, losing fat while maintaining or making muscle stronger through lifting is still very much doable and you don't have to sacrifice one for the other. It's tough to explain, but for muscles to be stronger they don't have to necessarily be bigger, this is all pre-determined by your genes. I don't have the genes for big bulky muscles, and even switching the way I lift to PROMOTE growth has done little to make this happen, and I'm a male! I have way more testosterone than you. Females are going to have a much tougher time trying to put on muscle mass, even if they're eating big and lifting with purpose. You don't fall into this category, so keep your food intake sensible, do your sprints, and do some lifting as well. You're not in the demographic of those that want to build muscle and lose fat, remember that those people are eating ABOVE maintenance to gain muscle, and trying to tweak things through IF or whatever to also hope for some simultaneous fat loss, which isn't easy to achieve, as you've already stated.

                    Peep this article on muscle development: Muscle hypertrophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    There are two different types of muscular hypertrophy: sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar. During sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, the volume of sarcoplasmic fluid in the muscle cell increases with no accompanying increase in muscular strength. During myofibrillar hypertrophy, actin and myosin contractile proteins increase in number and add to muscular strength as well as a small increase in the size of the muscle. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is characteristic of the muscles of certain bodybuilders while myofibrillar hypertrophy is characteristic of Olympic weightlifters.[1] These two forms of adaptations rarely occur completely independently of one another, one can experience a large increase in fluid with a slight increase in proteins, a large increase in proteins with a small increase in fluid, or a relatively balanced combination of the two.
                    [edit]
                    Women are much more likely to experience myofibrillar muscle development, meaning their muscles get stronger but not bigger. You can absolutely lose fat while continuing to train.

                    Hope that helps! I can't comment on how you should eat, but I reckon if you focus on protein and fat and let carbs be just from the vegetables you eat you can't go wrong, but apparently it's not always so simple, unfortunately.
                    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                      In your case, losing fat while maintaining or making muscle stronger through lifting is still very much doable and you don't have to sacrifice one for the other.
                      +1. That was a good post (the whole thing).

                      Lifting is a great way to lean out IMO. Essential even, for many people. As a female you're going to have a difficult time adding significant muscle mass to your frame. Any muscle weight that you do gain will likely be offset by fat loss, and even if you gain more weight in muscle then you lose in fat, you'll still probably be smaller (more toned) because muscle takes up far less space than fat (per pound).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                        Forgive me for assuming wrong.

                        Yeah, actively gaining muscle and hoping to lose fat is tough... BUT! this is for males (usually, calm down primal women..) that want to bulk up, meaning make their muscles visibly bigger while also hoping to remove that belly. In your case, losing fat while maintaining or making muscle stronger through lifting is still very much doable and you don't have to sacrifice one for the other. It's tough to explain, but for muscles to be stronger they don't have to necessarily be bigger, this is all pre-determined by your genes. I don't have the genes for big bulky muscles, and even switching the way I lift to PROMOTE growth has done little to make this happen, and I'm a male! I have way more testosterone than you. Females are going to have a much tougher time trying to put on muscle mass, even if they're eating big and lifting with purpose. You don't fall into this category, so keep your food intake sensible, do your sprints, and do some lifting as well. You're not in the demographic of those that want to build muscle and lose fat, remember that those people are eating ABOVE maintenance to gain muscle, and trying to tweak things through IF or whatever to also hope for some simultaneous fat loss, which isn't easy to achieve, as you've already stated.

                        Peep this article on muscle development: Muscle hypertrophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



                        Women are much more likely to experience myofibrillar muscle development, meaning their muscles get stronger but not bigger. You can absolutely lose fat while continuing to train.

                        Hope that helps! I can't comment on how you should eat, but I reckon if you focus on protein and fat and let carbs be just from the vegetables you eat you can't go wrong, but apparently it's not always so simple, unfortunately.
                        Thank iniQuity! I will take a look at this, and try to decipher. LOL

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          If I read correctly, you are still losing weight, right? Just not as fast as you'd like? I have been on this for about 6 months now - with a few cheats every now and then, but pretty strictly following this WOE. Doing that, I have lost 20 lbs, which works out to 3 lbs a month. In reality, I lost 2 lbs a week for the first 6 weeks - plateaued for a couple of months, gained a few pounds, lost them, and lost another 8 lbs or so in the last 2 1/2 months. My weight loss was not linear, and at the middle of May, after plateauing for a month and keeping my calories down, I would have shared your frustration. Something (I'm not sure what) started back up again after a plateau and now I am losing again. I am down to the point where I am eating about what you eat - maybe 1300-1600 calories a day or so (I don't really check very often), but I am losing steadily again. I am hoping to level out soon, because I don't really have that much left to lose anymore.

                          At 1200 calories, I don't think you have much left to tweak in your diet, and your macros look good. Make sure you are getting all the nutrients you need because that can stall things too, IMO. I think one of the things that started me back to losing was making sure I was taking all the supplements listed on the perfect health diet supplement page, but I dunno, maybe my body was just ready to let go of some more fat. I agree with iniquity that it may just take some time. Us women, especially those of us no longer in our 20s, have a harder time losing. It sucks, but it seems to be the way it is for most of us.
                          Karin

                          A joyful heart is good medicine

                          He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot

                          Mmmmm. Real food is good.

                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29685.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Lifting while you're losing weight is still a good idea. Granted, you won't gain much strength unless you're totally untrained, but it will keep you from losing as much LBM.

                            As for the IF thing, I think you should try three meals for a while and see which works better for you.
                            http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Still another IF fail.

                              ...and people got mad at me when I said something about this a few months ago!

                              IF works better when you lost your weight and you are tuning up. Its just a version of calorie restriction you dont need right now (see leptin reset). If you have some real weight to lose (like more than a few BF %) focus on diet instead of IF or "working it off."

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