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  • #61
    Eating high-carb will cause cravings, so no, you will not get rid of carb cravings by eating more carbs. Stick to moderate carbs coming from natural foods (mostly veggies and a bit of fruit).
    Having a stable mood comes from the serotonin receptor balance. You feel like shit not because your brain does not release enough serotonin, but because your serotonin receptors have downregulated their responsiveness to serotonin after excess release of serotonin (triggered by eating heaps of sugar or taking drugs).
    That's why you get mood swings from eating high carb foods. The solution is eating normal amounts of carbs from veggies and a bit of fruits and only eat high carb treats (like honey, dark chocolate, high GI fruits and alcohol) sporadically.
    Free book on Self-change (aswell as Paleo articles) at my website: www.identityisdynamic.com

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Edje Noh View Post
      Eating high-carb will cause cravings, so no, you will not get rid of carb cravings by eating more carbs. Stick to moderate carbs coming from natural foods (mostly veggies and a bit of fruit).
      Having a stable mood comes from the serotonin receptor balance. You feel like shit not because your brain does not release enough serotonin, but because your serotonin receptors have downregulated their responsiveness to serotonin after excess release of serotonin (triggered by eating heaps of sugar or taking drugs).
      That's why you get mood swings from eating high carb foods. The solution is eating normal amounts of carbs from veggies and a bit of fruits and only eat high carb treats (like honey, dark chocolate, high GI fruits and alcohol) sporadically.
      Riiiiight. So that explains why after 9mo of low carb (eating lots of veggies including the starchier ones like parsnips) I was getting more and more depressed? And how I have been craving and mood swing free for the last 3 weeks using honey or liquid glucose taken between meals?

      Sporadic high carb is the absolute worst option IMO. If you want a rollercoaster battle of cravings and binges, go for it lol. But hey, if it works for you.... as I keep saying, we're NOT all the same! But Judith Wurtman is a researcher in this field, and runs a weightloss clinic which has a much higher success rate than the usual. To just breeze in and say "Of course this won't work, everyone knows eating carbs leads to eating more carbs" is pretty rude and disrespectful IMO. Doing what you recommend was a disaster for me, and there are many others who've found they need more carbs than that. And taking drugs? Really?!
      Last edited by Horsewoman; 08-23-2011, 12:13 AM.
      Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

      Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

      Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

      "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
      Harold Whitman

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      • #63
        Hi folks, the break out is over, and it coincided day for day with the womanly you-know-what, so I think I will bring honey back & see if it was the hormonal upheaval rather than sugar.
        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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        • #64
          Doing what you recommend was a disaster for me, and there are many others who've found they need more carbs than that. And taking drugs? Really?!
          lol, seriously. If he wants to see a REAL druggie... right here! And for me, the antidepressants are what's necessary. I've got a super-bad attitude about PNP, but even I can't argue with success. It works for you. Everyone really is pretty different. Brain chemistry is pretty poorly understood, anyway. I like that Michael Pollen quote about nutrition and science: it's right now about as advanced as surgery was in the 1600s. We haven't even got ether and sterile tools yet. Everyone's guessing.

          But if it works, it works. Effective is effective is effective, period.
          Getting my Grok on in the Pacific Northwest.

          "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me."
          "Cookie is a sometimes food."
          "Sometimes cookie monster eat APPLE instead of COOKIE. Sometimes eat CARROT."
          -Cookie Monster, partially reformed sugarholic

          "

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          • #65
            Originally posted by CandylandCanary View Post
            lol, seriously. If he wants to see a REAL druggie... right here! And for me, the antidepressants are what's necessary. I've got a super-bad attitude about PNP, but even I can't argue with success. It works for you. Everyone really is pretty different. Brain chemistry is pretty poorly understood, anyway. I like that Michael Pollen quote about nutrition and science: it's right now about as advanced as surgery was in the 1600s. We haven't even got ether and sterile tools yet. Everyone's guessing.

            But if it works, it works. Effective is effective is effective, period.
            Well, I'm not doing PNP lol, PNP was a disaster for me too. Gluten and starch was making me sick and all I ever got told was eat more wholegrains.
            Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

            Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

            Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

            "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
            Harold Whitman

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            • #66
              So, honey's back, and my eating normalized immediately; first night I did not feel like emptying the nut container after dinner, and was full with my two post-honey meals. I've never tried drugs, and really do not want to. So far works well for me. I did not do any calculations, but i am pretty sure I compensate the carbs I injest with honey by not gorging on nuts and fruit at night.
              My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
              When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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              • #67
                YAY Leida!!! This is awesome...
                My Before/After Pics
                Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

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                • #68
                  Well, I'm not doing PNP lol, PNP was a disaster for me too. Gluten and starch was making me sick and all I ever got told was eat more wholegrains.
                  Well, my bad. I think I'm mixing you up with someone else.. I know there was some mention of people who found success with PNP on the unbalanced/confused thread.

                  I do tend to classify the whole 'eat carbs at bedtime = more serotonin!' thing as quasi-PNP. But I guess you're not quite doing that either... so, sorry for the mixup.

                  BTW- in regards to your previous post about your experience with Cruella DesMaisons there... I seriously had flashbacks when you mentioned how she was like 'eat more eat more eat more eat more eat more eat more I don't care if you're gaining weight, eat more eat more eat more, diethead diethead, diethead, eat more!' God, I want to slap her. I suppose it's not worth the plane fare to NM just to crash her 'radiant ranch' cult worship session. But it's tempting, lol.
                  Getting my Grok on in the Pacific Northwest.

                  "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me."
                  "Cookie is a sometimes food."
                  "Sometimes cookie monster eat APPLE instead of COOKIE. Sometimes eat CARROT."
                  -Cookie Monster, partially reformed sugarholic

                  "

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by CandylandCanary View Post
                    Well, my bad. I think I'm mixing you up with someone else.. I know there was some mention of people who found success with PNP on the unbalanced/confused thread.

                    I do tend to classify the whole 'eat carbs at bedtime = more serotonin!' thing as quasi-PNP. But I guess you're not quite doing that either... so, sorry for the mixup.

                    BTW- in regards to your previous post about your experience with Cruella DesMaisons there... I seriously had flashbacks when you mentioned how she was like 'eat more eat more eat more eat more eat more eat more I don't care if you're gaining weight, eat more eat more eat more, diethead diethead, diethead, eat more!' God, I want to slap her. I suppose it's not worth the plane fare to NM just to crash her 'radiant ranch' cult worship session. But it's tempting, lol.
                    Well, I guess I am applying one of the principles ie the timed carb, though Cruella (lol) would certainly not consider me to be doing PNP in any way whatsoever. What I'm doing now is more like a combination of paleo/ the AS low starch diet and the serotonin diet. Three minimum starch low carb paleo meals a day, with liquid glucose 3 hours after each meal.

                    Sorry about the flashback! I get those too, to RR, my old church, and something else ultra stressful that happened last year. Ugh. I'd like to give her a talking-to. When someone says "But I am 260lbs, gaining steadily and eating so much I feel bloated and ill and dread the next meal because I'll have to force more food down" an appropriate response is not what you wrote above! I have proved to myself that blood sugar and cravings are way more complex than RR says. I can eat pure glucose on its own and my blood sugar is steady and I don't trigger cravings. Eat a little bit of something starchy with a full proteiny meal, I will crash 2 hrs later. Eat some cheese or cream and within days I will be shovelling down Haagen Dazs. Staying off gluten, starches and dairy seems to be most important for me, along with the good paleo meals and the timed glucose doses.

                    I went to the UK ranch once. She made me cry in front of everyone.
                    Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                    Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                    Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                    "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                    Harold Whitman

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                    • #70
                      I can eat pure glucose on its own and my blood sugar is steady and I don't trigger cravings. Eat a little bit of something starchy with a full proteiny meal, I will crash 2 hrs later. Eat some cheese or cream and within days I will be shovelling down Haagen Dazs. Staying off gluten, starches and dairy seems to be most important for me, along with the good paleo meals and the timed glucose doses.
                      Wow, it will be so interesting to see if this is still holding for you in a few weeks/months. It sounds like ... dare I say it, lol ... the food reward theory is holding true for you. Do you think it fits?
                      5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                      Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                      Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                      Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                      ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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                      • #71
                        Okay, here is the first for you. I took out about 0.5 oz of nuts yesterday as a snack, and ate one, then put the rest back in the fridge. Because I didn't want any. And I didn't have a large dinner, because we didn't have that much chicken left & hubby said he was hungry. Wicked or what? Gods, if it's gonna last, I might stop dreading evenings!!!
                        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                        When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by MamaGrok View Post
                          Wow, it will be so interesting to see if this is still holding for you in a few weeks/months. It sounds like ... dare I say it, lol ... the food reward theory is holding true for you. Do you think it fits?
                          Though I do think there's some truth in it, I don't think it's the main thing that's happening here.
                          Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                          Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                          Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                          "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                          Harold Whitman

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                          • #73
                            Well, I guess I am applying one of the principles ie the timed carb, though Cruella (lol) would certainly not consider me to be doing PNP in any way whatsoever.
                            You know? In retrospect, Cruella DeVille had way too much style to be compared to that twit. DesMaisons is more like... I don't know... maybe the Sea Witch in the Little Mermaid? But she was pretty awesome too, and her big number is great to sing at karoke. So I dunno. THAT TWIT, lol. All of the Disney villainesses are too cool to be compared to her.

                            That 'my way 100%' thing... yeah, I sure remember that. I don't know if she's getting off on making people completely turn off their brains and obey obey obey EVERYTHING she says, question NOTHING etc. Seriously, psychologist- heal thyself! Calling her a cult leader to her face was the highlight of my whole damn RR experience. (She then banned me for life, but worth it!)

                            I went to the UK ranch once. She made me cry in front of everyone.
                            Geez, who the hell would do that? I would have stood up and cussed her to her face for that. (And then she'd probably throw me out of the Ranch, but seriously....wtf, lady?)

                            Glad you got out of the mess. It sounds EXACTLY like leaving a cult.
                            Getting my Grok on in the Pacific Northwest.

                            "C is for cookie, that's good enough for me."
                            "Cookie is a sometimes food."
                            "Sometimes cookie monster eat APPLE instead of COOKIE. Sometimes eat CARROT."
                            -Cookie Monster, partially reformed sugarholic

                            "

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by CandylandCanary View Post
                              You know? In retrospect, Cruella DeVille had way too much style to be compared to that twit. DesMaisons is more like... I don't know... maybe the Sea Witch in the Little Mermaid? But she was pretty awesome too, and her big number is great to sing at karoke. So I dunno. THAT TWIT, lol. All of the Disney villainesses are too cool to be compared to her.

                              That 'my way 100%' thing... yeah, I sure remember that. I don't know if she's getting off on making people completely turn off their brains and obey obey obey EVERYTHING she says, question NOTHING etc. Seriously, psychologist- heal thyself! Calling her a cult leader to her face was the highlight of my whole damn RR experience. (She then banned me for life, but worth it!)



                              Geez, who the hell would do that? I would have stood up and cussed her to her face for that. (And then she'd probably throw me out of the Ranch, but seriously....wtf, lady?)

                              Glad you got out of the mess. It sounds EXACTLY like leaving a cult.
                              Yeah, it was. The "learn to take direction" thing was a disaster for me. I was already very good at that thanks to a disfunctional religion and marriage, I needed to learn to take responsibility for myself! Of course the first thing I did once I got the hang of that was walk away from RR!

                              I just don't understand the "my way 100%" thing. I could never see how the world could be classified into ss and not ss people, surely it's a sliding scale with a whole lot of other issues thrown in (she has now taken on board gluten as a common issue, doing that included sacking the person who was running the wheat free group and taking claim for the stuff she's researched and written as if it was her own work). I don't see why she can't accept that one size fits all isn't going to work. Well, I think she is gearing it for her target audience- messed up 50+ sugar addicted housewives who don't know science and can't handle working at the sort of level we do here, who need to be told "just eat breakfast". The rest of us, we just carry on struggling because we're not addressing our issues properly, or we leave and find another way.

                              She made me cry because she was on about that "big self" stuff. I already told her my dream for my life, but she never would accept it because it wasn't big enough. She knew I had a biochemistry degree and was top notch academically in my youth, and she just wouldn't accept me wanting a "smaller" (in her eyes) life than she thought I should have. She singled me out in front of everyone and asked me what my big self would be like and I just sat there and cried because I didn't know what to say, because I knew nothing I could say was acceptable to her, she saw my views about being around for my family as part of a problem, whereas for me it's a valuable and rewarding way to live, and I don't want to give it up to get a full time job. Of course she never knew that was why I was crying, she thought it was because I was upset that I was too messed up and "misery addicted" to be able to dream. She thought I was a wimp that was doing what others expected and wanted, she didn't even understand that what I was doing was profoundly counter-culture and that I had gone out on a limb to live the way I wanted- marrying straight from uni, having a baby the next year, going on to have 4 kids and being a SAHM etc. Anyway, rant over lol.
                              Last edited by Horsewoman; 08-26-2011, 01:02 AM.
                              Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                              Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                              Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                              "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                              Harold Whitman

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                              • #75
                                So sad for those faults, b/c RR did a profound thing for you and me both, short as it was of the full mark. It got us started, and some of the principles she came up with are good ones to incorporate into whatever sugar addiction steps may be worked into any kind of "program" - they're just not the be-all end-all. The stuff "hiding in the steps" was good for me, too, learning to quit saying why I can't do XYZ and make it happen for the sake of my health. But no, we're not all born SS, and no, we can't all eat gobs of grains. Period. My way or the highway is a pitiful way to look at life.
                                5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                                Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                                Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                                Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                                ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

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