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HELP! Please???

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  • HELP! Please???

    Okay so I've been on the PB since February.... my family can't believe how much better I look/feel so my dad asked for a copy of the PB for Father's Day. He took the jump last weekend and is losing weight and seems committed.

    This is FANTASTIC because the whole reason *I* started it was as an n=1 experiment after reading Dave's story and thinking he seemed a lot like my dad. I figured if it worked for me, it would work for him. My dad NEEDs to get healthy. His family is notorious for early death/heart disease and my dad was recently diagnosed with diabetes, has severe weight issues and joint issues. It breaks my heart to think my daughter won't have him around if we don't change his health.

    My mom is supporting him by trying it out herself. She is NOT very committed.

    But she wants him off and off NOW because his fasting sugars have risen to 180. I KNOW we've talked about it a million times here on the forum and I did a quick search but couldn't find the threads that detailed out what is happening.

    Please help me gather some information to show her that this WILL HELP him and is not hurting him!!!

  • #2
    Something is not right.

    I would take him down to between 0-20 carbs per day for at least three days and then see where his blood sugar lies.

    With no intake of sugar, and VERY little intake of carbs, you should see a very stabalized and much lower blood sugar.

    If not, there may be an unknown (or unreported) medical condition, or his diet and insulin control (if type 1) is not as good as he is leading people to believe.

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    • #3
      He may not be eating enough fats and his body is undergoing gluconeogenisis (converting protein into sugar) for energy? Under diabetic conditions (presumably he is type 2?) the gluconeogensis situation normally continues until insulin shuts it off, but under insulin resistent diabetes it will take longer to shut it off and thus blood sugars will rise on a low carb diet AND lower-fat diet. Paleo/Primal diets are low-card HIGH FAT diets and many people make the mistake of skimping on fats believing they are being healthy, and they are wrong wrong wrong. He very very likely is skimping on fats.

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      • #4
        Bumping this up to try to gather more facts.... so far I need to make sure his veggie carbs are down and his fat intake is stable (and yes I could see my mother skimping on fats with cooking.... very CW mindset)

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        • #5
          Fats are really the most crucial part, they really need to be up to 60% of calories. If he isn't getting enough fats, then he's not on the diet. And for other health reasons the fats should never be plant based (except olive, coconut, or palm oils) and should be preferentially monounsaturated or saturated. Think butter, cream, fatty steaks, fatty pork, fatty chicken, etc...
          Last edited by wildwabbit; 07-22-2011, 02:15 PM.

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          • #6
            Introduce that man to nitrite free bacon & avocados, stat!
            --Trish (Bork)
            TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
            http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
            FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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            • #7
              I will.... I'm rather high fat on PB and its working well for me. I don't add in fat but I don't shy away from it at all. In my house we cook with lard (we buy whole pigs so I have to do something with all that lard) and butter. If they didn't live accross the country I'd just render it down and share.

              The trick is going to be getting Mom using the fats. My grandmother (her mother) cooked liberally with butter (and was petite and thin her whole life) so I at least have a emotional example to bring to the table.

              Bork... do you think the avocado's carb content would creep up on him? I know my mother views them as healthy so I could see using them as a stealth fat....

              I'm scouring google too at the moment trying to show that rising glucose might be normal (I SWEAR I read this on this forum....)

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              • #8
                I've read that overdoing protein can also lead to a rise in blood sugars...also, did he change his insulin dosage or anything like that??

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                • #9
                  Rising glucose is always normal until insulin kicks in. Thats #1 and what most people know about why our bodies need insulin.

                  Thats the problem with T2 "insulin resistant" diabetes, glucose keeps rising and the body is late to produce insulin and the tissues are late to recognize insulin is there. Thats #2 what most diabetics (and people with diabetic family numbers) know about whats basically wrong here.

                  If the body can't get its sugar from carbs because you went low carb, and it can't get it from fat because you also went low fat (and possibly didn't get past the "carb-flu" stage of starting a low-carb diet thus the body isn't yet in "fat-burning" mode) then it can only get it from converting protein to glucose. Thats #3, read up on gluconeogenesis, which is understood by many in low carb arena. Its useful in low-carb diets for keeping the brain supplied with glucose (and a few other places) but you don't want it being the main way the whole body gets energy! That is the route to body being in starvation mode, and means you need fat!

                  And the process of converting from protein to sugar (again, gluconeogenesis) is shut off by insulin. This is #4, again need to peruse more advanced biochem stuff to get this. Hence, back to why blood sugar can go high from protein in a low-carb, low-fat diet.

                  Only as explained above, insulin is late to arrive at the party, hence protein->sugar isn't stopping quick enough, and overshoots its mark leading to high blood glucose. This is #5 just from putting all the pieces together.

                  Here is a quick link I found that gives you understanding of #3 and #4 but also check wikipedia, and Taubes I am pretty sure discusses gluconeogenesis in "Good Calories, Bad Calories"

                  Insulin and Glucagon <--- VERY THOROUGH DISCUSSION INCLUDING IMPACT ON DIABETICS AT END WHERE ** runaway gluconeogenesis leads to hyperglycemia **
                  Last edited by wildwabbit; 07-22-2011, 03:15 PM.

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                  • #10
                    For me, fasting blood sugars were the last to work their way down. My mistake at first was to do more Atkins than Paleo. Cutting down carbs to the 20 range but eating too much protein without enough fats will keep your fbs higher. While the protein does not spike blood sugars immediatelly after eating, like with carbs, it will as you digest it starting a few hours later - de novo lipogenesis at work.

                    The trick is Very Low Carb (I eat non-starchy vegetables, salads mostly and in moderation - <50g per day, and usually less than 30) Moderate Protein (a pack-of-card-sized serving at each my two meals a day) and High Fat (my principal sourves are Heavy Whipping Cream in coffee almost all day long (maybe 800 calories per day of cream), 2-3 oz of cheese daily, butter on everything and even by itself, a couple of teaspoons of high quality Coconut Oil, and I eat the fat first from my meats).

                    Ample fat. My fasting blood sugars are now under 115. Used to be 150-170. It takes a while for the new regime to stabilize blood sugars. I used to take Actos, Glipizide, and Metformin every day, 50-60 units of Lantus a day, and 6 to 10 units of Humalog before every meal. I have dropped the Actos, the Glipizide, and the Humalog, kept the Metformin, and cut back on the Lantus to 36 units per day.

                    My last 3 HgA1c's were 6.2, 6.1, and 5.7. Before, I had hit 11.3, was usually in the 7.5 - 9.0 range and the doctor would praise <7.5. I would be happy if my blood sugars were under 200! (Stupid me!)

                    Low Carb is essential, but it must be combined with High Fat to work optimally for diabetics. I was wildly out of wack with frequent lows in the 15-20 years before PB. For the last two years, I have accomplished what I think is a miracle. By the way, on the way to control my blood sugars and beat diabetes and its complications, I inadvertently dropped 50 lbs as a bonus.

                    PB is a little different for diabetics - there is no 20% - at least not for me.

                    I could go on and on....
                    Last edited by hilm3; 07-22-2011, 03:24 PM.

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                    • #11
                      I don't think I would be giving him too much excess fat either and keep calories lower to access that stored fat for energy. If he can manage some walking daily at a pace he can manage that will help also.
                      There was a study done recently where type 2 diabetics were put on a very low calorie diet seemed to reverse the diabetes. Most on this forum didn't think much of it. I'm not suggesting he goes that low in calories.

                      http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...-cure-diabetes
                      Last edited by Sue; 07-22-2011, 06:20 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sue View Post
                        I don't think I would be giving him too much excess fat either and keep calories lower to access that stored fat for energy. If he can manage some walking daily at a pace he can manage that will help also.
                        There was a study done recently where type 2 diabetics were put on a very low calorie diet seemed to reverse the diabetes. Most on this forum didn't think much of it. I'm not suggesting he goes that low in calories.
                        This study was pretty thoroughly debunked:

                        Diabetes Update: Idiotically Dangerous Diet "Reverses Diabetes" but So Does Moderate Carb Restriction Without Calorie Restriction

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                        • #13
                          No I don't think it was debunked. I think a lower calorie restriction would be fine.

                          http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...eatic-fat.html
                          http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2011/...revisited.html
                          Last edited by Sue; 07-22-2011, 06:27 PM.

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                          • #14
                            My blood sugar jumps up if I eat excess protein - for me, that's over 90g a day. I do better if I have 50g's in the morning and 40g's for lunch. I'm not hungry for the rest of the day, so I don't eat dinner - which also gives my body time to process the food and such before eating again.
                            I have to eat under 50g's of carbs a day - it's usually about 30 or so, not trying - just happens.

                            My fasting blood sugar is currently 89-95 after eating the PB diet for 2 months. It didn't take long for my F.B.S. to level out after I started. Less than a week.

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                            • #15
                              I still think it was debunked. People really do lose the same amount of weight or more as happened in the study while curing T2 diabetes on normal paleo/primal diets of the same amount of carbs while eating overall a normal or only slightly reduced amount of calories, never needing to go as low on calories as occured in that study.

                              CarbSane always has interesting points worth evaluating since one shouldn't always be listening to the choir, but the fact that her points devolve many times into personal attacks and/or mocking of those she diagrees with tends to limit her credibility.

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