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  • The Perfect Health Diet Discussion

    .

    I just got this book in the mail yesterday and was able to skim the first half last night.

    They recommend that your marcros are very? close 65% fat, 20% carbs, 15% protein.

    I'm running a caloric deficit right now until I lose my desired amount of fat reserves. My macro averages have been approximately 1500 cal, 60g fat(540cal or 35%), 100g carbs(400cal or 25%), and 150g protein(600cal or 40%).

    I have my maintenance caloric level guesstimated at 1900cal - so lets use this number for my longterm intake. Using this number I could keep my protein on the hign end of their recommendation - 150g putting me at 32% - and keep my carbs at 100g ~20% I like those two numbers and they land within in their 'plateau range' I think(the protein is high, but I think this is still within their acceptable range..... my problem is getting to ~105g of fat without increasing my protein any higher(or eventually getting protein lower if it is too high).

    Filling out my macros to 1900cal with 105g of fat only puts my fat intake at 50% and to get there even (and here's my real question/dilemma) I'd have to up my oils, like coconut oil which they highly recommend. My instincts tell me to stay with real, whole foods instead of oils, etc.

    What are your opinions on all this?

    I gotta run to work, but wanted to get a discussion started on getting to the macros they recommend, if there is any first hand experiences here, educated opinions, etc, etc.

    I hope all my math is correct.

    Lets keep it positive and on track please.

    Happy Friday!

    -Voyageur

    .
    There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

  • #2
    You are overthinking this. Eat real, whole foods with plenty of coconut oil, natural fats, and butter. Eat when you are hungry. Stop when you are not hungry (not hungry is not equal to full).

    Your body will have a period of healing and adjustment to go through for about a month or so. You'll know when you've settled into that adjustment. Then start tweaking things if you feel the need to do so.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post
      You are overthinking this. Eat real, whole foods with plenty of coconut oil, natural fats, and butter. Eat when you are hungry. Stop when you are not hungry (not hungry is not equal to full).

      Your body will have a period of healing and adjustment to go through for about a month or so. You'll know when you've settled into that adjustment. Then start tweaking things if you feel the need to do so.
      I'm well into the tweaking stage.

      Maybe the following info will help when the discussion relates to me specifically:

      I'm a Type-A personality wrapped in a control freak. There will be no going with the flow and see how things work out in a few weeks. I want to have a plan, get results, and tweak from there. I'm not someone who thinks eating when I'm hungry and quitting when I'm not is a good idea. I want to put real, whole foods in my body - what I need for nutrients and to maintain a caloric average over time that will keep my body composition where I think it is the healthiest. Therefore, The Perfect Health Deit is of interest to me - thus this thread to help me better understand it.

      I'm guessing that I will be measuring, recording, and managing my macros on a daily basis well into my maintenance stage or at least until I'm comfortable in thinking that I can be successful without all the micro-managing - which I don't mind anyway - you have to understand that it helps me.

      jfreaksho - I do realize that your opinion will be a popular one here - it's just not for me right now.

      Respectfully,

      -Voyageur

      .
      Last edited by Voyageur; 07-22-2011, 05:49 AM.
      There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

      Comment


      • #4
        I've never personally read it, but I have a friend who is extremely into metrics and recording every detail, and he swears by combining Primal with Tim Ferris' 4 Hour Body.

        Comment


        • #5
          Voyageur

          I know how you feel, for years i was the same way, and it isnt something that will change for you anytime soon. I still feel the same way most of the time.What i have found is that there is a level of information we need to take into concideration that type A control freak OCD'ers tend to ignore.

          Cycles.

          we have many cycles in the body and all of then require time. many of them require more than 24 hours and as suck serioudly frak with a control freaks domination of the organism. if we are honest we KNOW that things take time but we are too rigid to allow for we ourselves to make a mistep we could have prevented.so we micro manage.Expand your knowledge to allow for and account for the various cycles in your own body or you wont be able to manage the system. Unfortunately we micro manage a system that refuses to be micro managed. Now over time you can dial it in to a very fine level of control and here is what i have found.

          TOO MUCH INFORMATION - Not enough trust

          Do you have a plan for breathing?
          Do you have a plan for blood circulation?

          why not? You accept those things are out of your control, right. Unless you are in posession of a Star Trek Bio-Bed then you must accept that their is much that IS out of your contol. Additionally you expect that your subconscious is fully aware of your need and you trust it to keep the heart beating, the lungs respirating and the bowels moving.

          Unconsciously competent. there are 4 stages of intelligence. unconsciously incompentent, consciously incompetent, consciously competen,t and unconsciously competent. It is unconscious competence that makes for a masterful human. We know what we know so well that we dont need to think about it.
          Your goal could be to map a path to achieve this mastery.While i cannot know you well enough to suggest how you get there one coudl stat by focusing on one aspect of the plan. such as finding the exact level of carbohydrate you require on a weekly basis. get that dialed in then more to something else.

          Mastery

          Ultimately in this war for domination of your inner landscape you will find that you already knew what you needed to do. Yes that you were already unconsciously compentent, however something disquieted you and so you tried to drag that information back into consciousnes. once you wrestle with it a while you can accept that you already knew it and let it go back. but until you reach that point i give your this annecdote.

          As a teen i was into heavy weight training. long walks and supplementation. I coudl not afford supplementation as i was poor and once i left home ill prepared to exist in this society i could not afford the gym. fast forward 23 years and i am able to afford that which i knew i needed years ago and my health is far better. Now i coudl have afforeded it a decade ago but i idnt trust that i knew what i needed. I wanted my MD to dail it in for me. He almost killed me. I have healed by my own knowledge not others.

          Use others knowledge and examples only as a sounding board for your own knowledge. You know what you need already.
          Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

          Predator not Prey
          Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

          CW 315 | SW 506
          Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


          Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

          Comment


          • #6
            In a blog post, one of the book's authors said he recommends reducing fat some when you're trying to lose fat, so that you won't become deprived of protein and carbohydrates. He said it usually winds up at a 30/30/40 carb/protein/fat distribution. And he recommends eggs to keep your vitamin levels up.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Voyageur View Post
              .
              I'm a Type-A personality wrapped in a control freak. There will be no going with the flow and see how things work out in a few weeks. I want to have a plan, get results, and tweak from there. I'm not someone who thinks eating when I'm hungry and quitting when I'm not is a good idea. I want to put real, whole foods in my body - what I need for nutrients and to maintain a caloric average over time that will keep my body composition where I think it is the healthiest. Therefore, The Perfect Health Deit is of interest to me - thus this thread to help me better understand it..
              .
              Just an observation-

              I question that anyone will get their optimum macros out of a book, unless the writer of the book is clairvoyant! All you can get is an educated guess. Micro-managing an educated guess is still an educated guess.

              If you want that much "control," you have to know what you are controlling. This would require having the right doc/consultant and enough tests done to understand what it is you are doing and why.. THEN do the rigorous management of it.

              I don't know your history or numbers so can't comment, but I can comment on what I change based on my own docs reading of tests... Changes/tweaks were made based on insulin, trigs, thyroid numbers, HDL/LDL, hemoglobin, Vit D and B, cortisol, DHEA, and plenty I can't think of. No book is going to have the "perfect" diet for me unless it knows more about those things that my doc does after looking at real numbers.

              Books are compromises, just like requirements for making shirts to sell at Wal Mart. Requirements have to be relaxed based on estimates and averages.

              Comment


              • #8
                Shou-Ching and Paul actually have a fat loss protocol. Cut out some of the fat, but keep the rest the same. It just means that you skip the pat of butter and use maybe half the coconut oil. Try it.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DFH View Post
                  Just an observation-

                  I question that anyone will get their optimum macros out of a book, unless the writer of the book is clairvoyant! All you can get is an educated guess. Micro-managing an educated guess is still an educated guess.

                  If you want that much "control," you have to know what you are controlling. This would require having the right doc/consultant and enough tests done to understand what it is you are doing and why.. THEN do the rigorous management of it.

                  I don't know your history or numbers so can't comment, but I can comment on what I change based on my own docs reading of tests... Changes/tweaks were made based on insulin, trigs, thyroid numbers, HDL/LDL, hemoglobin, Vit D and B, cortisol, DHEA, and plenty I can't think of. No book is going to have the "perfect" diet for me unless it knows more about those things that my doc does after looking at real numbers.

                  Books are compromises, just like requirements for making shirts to sell at Wal Mart. Requirements have to be relaxed based on estimates and averages.
                  +1
                  Optimum Health powered by Actualized Self-Knowledge.

                  Predator not Prey
                  Paleo Ketogenic Lifestyle

                  CW 315 | SW 506
                  Current Jeans 46 | Starting Jeans 66


                  Contact me: quelsen@gmail.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's not about hitting fixed numbers day in day out - some days you will be higher in protein and lower in carbs. Some days your calorie intake will be higher and others it will be lower. You are going to find that hitting these hard numbers you are playing with in the real world with real food requires flexibility and a view of the average over a week. My advise is to get off the excell spreadsheet. I understand the desire to map it all out but you are focusing on some pretty tight parameters.

                    Carbs - give yourself a range of about 10 points within an assumed overall percentage of fat intake in a day. Personally, my goal is more 55-65% - maybe that's low.
                    Look at the carbohydrate curve and set your carb goals. Therefor, if you are eating to maintain your weight you would try to eat at least 100 grams but not go over 150 grams.
                    For protein - set the range of .7 -1 gram protein per pound of your lean body mass.
                    And, in terms of calories, give yourself a bit of range there - perhaps 1,800-1,995 calories per day.

                    Now your inner geek can come out and plan. Set up a fitday account and track what you eat. See how you do eat day and also overall in the week. If you don't meet your protein intake goals tomorrow you can average it out the next day or the next. Same with calories, fat and carbs.

                    Most important, as you start eating primal, particularly if you are living on carbs right now, you need to cut yourself some slack the first month as your body adjusts. You might need to eat a crazy huge amount to feel full - which seems to be common and will settle down in time.

                    Go eat a steak.
                    My primal journal that I don't update enough:
                    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread33293.html

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      My advice for people inclined to measuring and recording is to experiment with various diet approaches appealing to them for 4 to 6 weeks, and monitoring their weight-loss, fat loss, muscule gain and well-being. At the end of the experiment, stick to the approach that is the easiest to follow and gives the desired results, while keeping the well-being and happiness at the max.
                      My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
                      When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Here is a link to the weight loss version of the PHD (it's a blog post & not in the book):

                        Weight Loss | Perfect Health Diet

                        Basically keep the carbs and protein, reduce added fat.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Voyageur View Post
                          I'm well into the tweaking stage.

                          I'm a Type-A personality wrapped in a control freak. There will be no going with the flow and see how things work out in a few weeks. I want to have a plan, get results, and tweak from there. I'm not someone who thinks eating when I'm hungry and quitting when I'm not is a good idea. I want to put real, whole foods in my body - what I need for nutrients and to maintain a caloric average over time that will keep my body composition where I think it is the healthiest. Therefore, The Perfect Health Deit is of interest to me - thus this thread to help me better understand it.

                          I'm guessing that I will be measuring, recording, and managing my macros on a daily basis well into my maintenance stage or at least until I'm comfortable in thinking that I can be successful without all the micro-managing - which I don't mind anyway - you have to understand that it helps me.
                          jfreaksho - I do realize that your opinion will be a popular one here - it's just not for me right now.
                          Ah a Primal person after my own heart. All this, "Throw away your scale, eat your bacon, and be happy", stuff doesn't work for me either.
                          What some Groks just don't get is that the tweaking, measuring, weighing, experimenting with new theories etc. is FUN. For some of us. Oh well, to each their own.

                          I agree with the PHD weight loss version cited above by loraine about getting rid of the gratuitous add on fats like blobs of butter and mayo. My personal sweet spot comes down with a little higher on the protein and lower on the carbs than they recommend. When I first started out I did VLC at about 10% carb but now, since I've lost some weight, I'm at more like 15%. With 45% protein and 40% fat.

                          Happy Tweaking!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I love the Perfect Health Diet because it has taught me a lot that I wasn't finding in other paleo books/blogs, a lot of the biology and science that supports a paleo/primal lifestyle, and a lot of details like for example with fasting, which I was not able to find explained elsewhere.

                            I adjusted my diet a little after reading it so that I'm "PHD-compliant" now, re-introduced starchy veggies and/or some white rice daily, upped my coconut oil consumption and even started buying coconuts and eating fresh coconut daily. I also started limiting my fruit as well as threw away my fish oil supplements and cut back on salmon to twice a week. And I limit my meat and carb consumption to 600 cals each or less everyday.

                            The PHD involves a little more micromanagement at first I think, just to see where you stand, but I don't micromanage myself everyday and I don't find it hard to follow their recommendations without thinking about it now. I have recorded down a full day of food here and there and I'm typically around 2/3 calories from fat and the rest split between protein and carbs, although usually skewed towards protein. They recommend eating 1lb of animal food a day, or less, 0.5lb being optimal for longetivity and I understand the science they're presenting to back that up but I'm a meat eater and I feel better eating more meat, so I'm almost always around 1.0lbs daily. They also recommend eating 1+ pounds of plant food a day and I'm typically closer to 1.5-2.0lbs.

                            I've never needed to lose weight, but I've been following the PHD for about 3 months now and I've gained a small amount of muscle, held around 7%-8% body fat, and even cleared up my acne on my face. And I was paleo for a good 1.5yrs previous to finding the PHD! Love the PHD.

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