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Might temporarily go back to vegan

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  • Might temporarily go back to vegan

    I've been eating primal for about 4 months now, and am not doing well. I'm lost on what to do. I've got chest pains (started before going primal, with two different holistic docs telling me I've got clogged arteries), and they're not going away. Long ago I tried to be a vegan raw foodist and was never very good at it, but whenever I did a 30 day raw foods detox I'd feel great afterwards. But the deprivation did me in and eventually I'd start eating crap, gave up on raw foods, and gained about 40 pounds. On primal, I've lost about 20 of those pounds, but still feel like hell. I can't even exercise anymore - can't even take a walk - as it leads to GERD symptoms and chest pain issues, and I'm only 20 or 30 pounds overweight. The best I've felt in the last ten years has only been after doing a vegan detox. I'm wondering if raw vegan is the way to go for the short term, to get over some health issues, then maybe try slowly getting back into primal at some point. I know there are many who have had lots of health issues arise from being a long-term vegan, but maybe it would be good for short-term healing.

    I read this today, too, which isn't helping me to stay primal (it's from a raw foods site The Primal Diet: Where It Goes Wrong, and the article makes lots of statements that are easy to refute, but I wonder what others think of the following):

    ...William C. Roberts MD, author of 1300 scientific publications, numerous cardiology textbooks, and editor of the American Journal of Cardiology for a quarter of a century said it best.

    In his 2008 editorial, "The Cause of Atherosclerosis," published in the journal Nutrition in Clinical Practice, Roberts says that, "Atherosclerosis is easily produced in nonhuman herbivores (eg, rabbits, monkeys) by feeding them
    a high cholesterol (eg, egg yolks) or high saturated
    fat (eg, animal fat) diet… And atherosclerosis was not produced in a
    minority of rats fed these diets, it was produced in
    100% of the animals! Indeed, atherosclerosis is one
    of the easiest diseases to produce experimentally,
    but the experimental animal must be an herbivore.
    It is not possible to produce atherosclerosis in a

    In other words, any creature that can get atherosclerosis is meant to eat plants. Any animal who cannot is meant to eat animal protein.

    Humans are clearly meant to be plant eaters, and eating a primal diet will destroy us.


    If you can refute this study and let me know what's missing/wrong, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

  • #2
    what does a typical 3 day's diet look like for you?


    • #3
      I usually start every day with a couple of handfuls of berries, followed by sauteed veggies (brocoli/cauliflower/zuchini) with 2 or 3 eggs, or I'll have ground turkey with kale (cooked in coconut oil). Lunch and dinner is usually a large salad and some ground beef, lamb, or turkey. Sometimes I put some raw cashews in my salad. The meat is cooked with a little cocunut oil. I put olive oil on my salads. That's about it. About once a week I might eat at a whole foods buffet, and then I might have some potatoes with chicken. I keep it very simple.


      • #4
        that's my first question, what are you eating? second, have you had tests run by doctors with machines designed to run said tests?

        if you want to go back to vegan, do it
        yeah you are

        Baby if you time travel back far enough you can avoid that work because the dust won't be there. You're too pretty to be working that hard.


        • #5
          What are you eating at the Whole Foods buffet?
          If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123


          • #6
            The Roberts source sounds like woo. The egg/cholesterol thing has been long debunked. There is a chapter on this in the book Protein Power.

            If I were you I would get a detailed blood test to do some troubleshooting. The answers are not in publications.

            As far as diet, do what makes you feel right. I would avoid grains though because of inflammation.


            • #7
              If this is this guy's direct quote, then his logic is flawed (and I don't care how many pubs he has). While it may be true that for the herbivores he tested, atherosclerosis was found. But from that it does not follow at all that if an animal can get atherosclerosis that it means they are herbivores.
              Humans are omnivores, and cannot live for very well for very long on a completely vegan diet without supplementation. True herbivores OTOH, should be able to live very well on just plants alone. In addition, there are many many humans who eat animals and do not get atherosclerosis. It is not 100%, like rabbits.
              To get a better picture of atherosclerosis in omnivores, it would be better to compare humans with other omnivores who don't have as much atherosclerosis. What are those others doing?
              That said, I don't know what could be the problem that you are having. When you do the vegan detox, exactly what are you doing? Are you juicing, eliminating certain fats? Just eating your regular diet minus the meat?
              I used to do great on a vegan detox, too, but now I believe it was just due to not eating alot of wheat. The key for me was getting off the vegetarian/vegan diet that made me fat and get the inflammation down. I did this on a low carb diet. Once I did that, formerly offending foods, like beef, pork and butter were no longer a problem. Like others have said, it looks like you have still been dealing with inflammation.


              • #8
                The once a week buffet isn't enough to make any difference.

                Are you getting enough vitamin D?

                Is all of your meat lean "muscle meat" or do you get some variety cuts. You can't thrive on muscle meat alone.

                Have you tried a food tracker to see what nutrients you are getting every day? Are you getting enough food?

                A short detox diet or a fast might be good. I don't know.
                Ancestral Health Info

                I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.


                • #9
                  Looks like there is hardly any fat in your diet too.
                  My journal where I attempt to overcome Chrohns and make good food as well


                  • #10
                    The people in Mongolia might take issue with the herbivore claim too!

                    They are carnivores and do just fine.


                    • #11
                      I eat primal at the whole foods buffet, with the exception, maybe once a week at most, of having potatoes. I do not eat grains or legumes. Haven't had any for four months, and was limited before that.

                      Good points Paleobirdy on the atherosclerosis study.

                      The detoxes I used to do (its been few years now), was from a raw foods restaurant/wellness center in Chicago, and it included all raw foods with a lot of green juicing, some lovely enemas, and ended in a three day green juice fast. I'd always feel amazing afterwards. But also deprived, so off I'd go to a coffee shop for a scone and latte. Then I'd feel the need to do another detox. It was a vicious cycle. I've been scone/coffee free for a long time.

                      I definitely prefer eating primal, but need to find a solution. I'm currently working with a chiropractor who does nutritional response testing (muscle testing), and he tells me I have clogged arteries and parasites. He has a vitamin C protocol for helping with the clogged arteries, using a whole food Vitamin C from Standard Process labs. He says that most viamin C is just ascorbic acid, which is only a portion of the vitamin C molecule. He says the clogged arteries are a result of vit C deficiency, and the whold food vit C that he uses heals the arteries. Once the arteries are healed, any plague build up sloughs off. He's got me on several other supplements, some of which have helped eliminate other minor symptoms, which has given me confidence in his approach. Even the chest pains were almost gone for awhile, but now they are back with a vengeance and he's given me some new supplements, claiming that parasites are the culprit. He's a western price follower but is fine with my primal diet. I want to give him more time, but this chest pain is nothing to mess around with. I can't stand conventional docs. They wanted to cut me open a long time ago for GERD.


                      • #12
                        Do you take any omega 3 fish oil, and do you know your CRP number?


                        • #13
                          I used fitday once and according to that, my diet was about 65% fat, 23% protein, and 12% carb.


                          • #14
                            I took Omega 3 fish oil for years. Never noticed any benefit. The chiro muscle tested my fish oil and I went weak, so I stopped taking it. What's a CRP number?


                            • #15
                              what is your blood pressure?
                              Primal Chaos
                              37yo 6'5"
                              6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                              current 338lbs 49" waist
                              goal 240lbs 35" waist