Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Confused about Dairy and Watermellon

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Confused about Dairy and Watermellon

    I am only on my third day of PB and I'm not sure what the "rules" are on all things dairy liquids (what to drink, what not to drink) as well as watermellon, which is normally a staple in my summertime diet. Any experienced PBer's have advice?
    Thanks!

  • #2
    I'm fat and early T2D, so a bunch of milk sugar and watermelon sugar is out for me.

    Lots of different bodies here, lots of different advice based on what works for those bodies.
    “In God we trust; all others must bring data.” W. Edwards Deming
    Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by JennyE View Post
      I am only on my third day of PB and I'm not sure what the "rules" are on all things dairy liquids (what to drink, what not to drink) as well as watermellon, which is normally a staple in my summertime diet. Any experienced PBer's have advice?
      Thanks!
      As loafingcactus said, it's quite dependant on body and what your goals are.

      For many, dairy is not digested properly (even if you think you do, there's a good chance you don't). Also some people cannot lose weight with dairy.
      Only way to really know is cutting it out for a bit and re-introducing it to see if you feel any different. It's a bit of a gray area with PB.
      Have a read through Mark's guide on Dairy.
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dairy-intolerance/

      IMO, watermelon, if eaten in moderation, should be fine; though it will likely slow down weight loss.
      Last edited by fufonzo; 07-08-2011, 06:37 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        The reason why some people don't lose weight on diary is because of calories since it's calorie dense.

        I could say the same about coconut oil, olive oil and other high calorie dense foods.

        It's about the calories in the end. I've lost a bunch of weight while eating a diary frequently.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JPA View Post
          The reason why some people don't lose weight on diary is because of calories since it's calorie dense.

          I could say the same about coconut oil, olive oil and other high calorie dense foods.

          It's about the calories in the end. I've lost a bunch of weight while eating a diary frequently.
          I don't know if that's necessarily it. Milk seems to raise insulin quite a bit. I'd be more inclined to think that's why people have a harder time losing weight on it.

          I've lost a bunch of weight drinking milk and know a lot of people who've lost a lot of weight eating bread. Doesn't necessarily mean it's optimal.

          My fiancée for example, can't seem to lose weight when she eats dairy (and perusing through the woman thread that was around a few months back, I remember reading about many of them not being able to lose weight when they have it).

          Only way to find out how your body reacts is to try with it and without it.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by JPA View Post
            The reason why some people don't lose weight on diary is because of calories since it's calorie dense.

            I could say the same about coconut oil, olive oil and other high calorie dense foods.

            It's about the calories in the end. I've lost a bunch of weight while eating a diary frequently.
            Well, it's more about energy intake in the presence of insulin. There's no such thing as a "calorie" in the body since a "calorie" is a unit of measure for a steam engine and the human body is a chemical engine. Dairy is energy rich and also insulinogenic, so you store more fat when you eat dairy than you would if you ate an equal amount of energy in, say, eggs or lettuce. The reason why Primal works so well is because meat generates less insulin than grain, and you can eat a whole lot more meat before you put on the fat you do when your blood sugar's high. Since oil generates no insulin, I wonder how that works. If you were fasting and just ate oil, would the calories count? If you ate oil with a slice of bread, would the oil count more then since you're making insulin now? I wonder.

            I have no qualm with watermelon and eat it every time I'm at a BBQ. Outside of BBQ's, I never eat it though.
            Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-08-2011, 07:24 AM.
            Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JPA View Post
              The reason why some people don't lose weight on diary is because of calories since it's calorie dense.
              I think this is part of the reason and maybe all of the reason for most people, but after months of experimenting with dairy, I found that I can replace cheese calories with twice as many calories from nuts and not gain any fat. But it seems like just a little regular cheese consumption will cause fat gain with me.

              If I eat it several days in a row I'll get plugged, achy, itchy ears. I think the hormones and proteins in dairy will cause some people to react in negative ways.

              I've been experimenting with sheep and goat dairy and have so far not had the ear problems. We'll see if it causes fat gain. I've had small amounts of sheep's yogurt and goat butter (which is unbelievably delicious BTW) everyday for the past week and so far so good.

              Comment


              • #8
                If dairy doesn't bug you, why not? It's covered pretty clearly in the book. It's quite obviously... a grey area.

                Watermelon? It's fruit, fruit's good stuff, and the best part about it, you can't eat too much - it will revolt and attempt to escape. We've already gone through one watermelon this week, and probably will get another tomorrow. You can check my fitday journal in my sig if your curious about the impact its had on me.
                My Fitday public journal.
                Me vs. Russian Boar, hunt is on Aug. 20th. WHAT'S MORE PRIMAL THAN THAT?!
                Recently survived Warrior Dash, New England.
                Game Developer, ex-Chef, long time Fatbody.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Insulin is released both before eating when you think about something tasty and during eating so I'm sure oil calories count. Especially considering they have to count. When you eat something it has a certain amount of energy in it and when that energy is put to use either burned in exercise, stored as fat, or used for other body functions its going to add to your body.

                  If you eat 200 calories worth of any food and part of it is made into fat that will be part of your body which of course counts. It'll be part of how much you weigh. If part of that is burned/used in exercise for energy its been used so its gone and doesn't really count. If the energy isn't used for something/burned its either going to be part of the body as muscle and or fat depending on if the body decides to build muscle or store it.

                  If you eat bread with it the bread will be used first for energy and if you don't need the energy from the oil it'll be stored as fat..

                  I'm fairly certain energy you get from eating is either used to make muscle, used to make fat, used in other processes ie digestion etc. The energy that is contained in the fat/muscle or other types of tissues all weigh a certain amount and than the waste left over is expelled from the body and thus makes your weight go down.
                  Age: 28
                  Height: 6'1"
                  Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                  Start Weight: 275
                  Current Weight: 248
                  Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                  Body Fat 25.4%
                  Fat Mass 63.721
                  Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                  Fat Free Mass 187.087
                  Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                  Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Why are so many people still hanging on to calorie theory? It's only a crude approximation. Chocotaco above is right.

                    Calorie numbers come from burning food bits in a bomb calorimeter to see how high the temperature goes, then it's an estimate from there.

                    Humans are not bomb calorimeters.

                    Saying calories = energy stored/used is like saying tires equals traction. Yeah, it's true but useless. There are big tires, little tires, good tires, bad tires...and flat tires. It's more complicated than that.

                    Insulin theory works better. Read WWGF or GCBC.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
                      If the energy isn't used for something/burned its either going to be part of the body as muscle and or fat depending on if the body decides to build muscle or store it.
                      See, I take issue with this statement. Insulin is the mechanism that stores energy, no? So if there is no insulin, then you can't store any energy. Now, insulin is ALWAYS present in the human body to a degree, so if you eat just pure oil while fasting, there is still insulin to shuttle that oil somewhere. The question is, how much does that count? Oil calories should in theory be worth the least because they have the least insulin response to shuttle them somewhere, which is the theory behind the high fat diet. Higher fat = less insulin = less fat storage.

                      The body isn't zero sum. We don't store or burn everything we take in. What your body doesn't use, you literally "crap it out." Simply put, if you eat lower insulin-generating food, it stands to reason that you would have higher calorically dense fecal matter. This whole notion of the energy having to go somewhere is a major fallacy in human thought. It can easily pass right through you. If your body doesn't think you need to store the energy, it won't.

                      Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
                      If you eat bread with it the bread will be used first for energy and if you don't need the energy from the oil it'll be stored as fat.
                      But will it? Adding butter would lessen the glycemic load of the bread, no? If the slower absorption releases overall less insulin over the digestive period, would you wind up shuttling less fat into storage because less insulin is available to do so, therefore causing more of the food to "pass through your body" untouched? I'd be VERY curious to see a study where one group eats bread without butter and the other group eats bread with butter and see what happens to their overall weight.
                      Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-08-2011, 08:58 AM.
                      Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yep. One reality check for what choco is saying is a type 1 diabetic that does not get insulin. They get very thin. Why? No insulin.

                        This happened to my grandfather who died from it when my dad was a child. He could not afford insulin and was thin as a rail.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I've read them both . My main point was that oil calories count.... you get energy from oil. Saying they don't count is the same as saying you get nothing from them. If anything you eat doesn't contribute to you than its because your body gets rid of it either by excreting or using it.
                          Age: 28
                          Height: 6'1"
                          Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                          Start Weight: 275
                          Current Weight: 248
                          Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                          Body Fat 25.4%
                          Fat Mass 63.721
                          Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                          Fat Free Mass 187.087
                          Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                          Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Raiken3712 View Post
                            If the energy isn't used for something/burned or excretedits either going to be part of the body as muscle and or fat depending on if the body decides to build muscle or store it.

                            If you eat bread with it the bread will be used first for energy and if you don't need the energy from the oil it'll be stored as fat..or excreted

                            I'm fairly certain energy you get from eating is either used to make muscle, used to make fat, used in other processes ie digestion etc. The energy that is contained in the fat/muscle or other types of tissues all weigh a certain amount and than the waste/other things the body deems unnecessary left over is expelled from the body and thus makes your weight go down.
                            Ok some good points are my corrections good enough?
                            Age: 28
                            Height: 6'1"
                            Primal start date: July 1st 2011
                            Start Weight: 275
                            Current Weight: 248
                            Stats below as of September 1st 2011 Tested via BodPod
                            Body Fat 25.4%
                            Fat Mass 63.721
                            Fat Free Mass 74.6%
                            Fat Free Mass 187.087
                            Goal weight: 180-200 lbs(Recommended weight is around 180 for my height but that sounds low)
                            Total lost so far: 27 lbs

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That is still calorie theory.

                              Flat tires are still tires, and they roll kind of, but you don't get very far.

                              Why use a weak theory? Insulin explains it better. I don't get it.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X