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Does the PB Food Pyramid really make sense?

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  • Does the PB Food Pyramid really make sense?

    Hi, I know that the PB says it is not necessary to count calories and macro-nutrients %'s but, being used to do this since a long time, I feel more confortable continuing.

    The PB says
    - eat max 1 gram of protein per pound of lean mass
    - eat max 150 gram of carbs (but does it really make sense to give an absolute figure, with no relation to body weight??)
    - most of the calories should come from meat, fish, fowl and eggs.

    Lets say I have 165 pound of lean mass, that would mean I need max 165 grams of proteins, that makes 660cal from proteins.
    I want to eat lets say 130gram of carbs (that, according to the PB, is even too much if I want to lose weight), that makes 520cal from carbs.
    Now, lets say I want to consume 2500cal per day, that would mean I need to get a whopping 1320cal from fats (147 grams)!

    To summarize, according to the PB, with 165 pound lean mass a 2500 daily caloric intake could mean:
    - 165gram protein (660cal)
    - 130gram carb (520cal) - and this would mean weight maintenance, no loss
    - 147gram fat (1320cal) - 53% of daily calories!!!

    I know that meat, fish, fowl and eggs also contain fat, but with such a major quantity of fats to be consumed, most of my calories would need to come from nuts, seeds and other fats! And if you are not very active you would need to consume even less proteins and hence more fats!!

  • #2
    Protein needs to be worked out in relation to lean mass but its not necessary for carbohydrates. There is no absolute need for carbohydrates from the diet but an amount up to about 150g is a good guide. Most who start eating this may have issues with blood sugar (too high), fat gain etc. Limiting carbs helps with this.

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    • #3
      Few of us will be able to see your problem. 53% of your calories from fat is no problem. Just make sure it is mostly saturated or monounsaturated fats. Forget the nuts and seeds. Believe me, it is not hard to eat that much fat. Indeed if you're not careful you might overindulge
      Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

      Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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      • #4
        Originally posted by peril View Post
        Few of us will be able to see your problem. 53% of your calories from fat is no problem. Just make sure it is mostly saturated or monounsaturated fats. Forget the nuts and seeds. Believe me, it is not hard to eat that much fat. Indeed if you're not careful you might overindulge
        Exactly. The problem is what?
        In God we trust; all others must bring data. W. Edwards Deming
        Blogging at http://loafingcactus.com

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        • #5
          Thanks for the answers! Wow this must be one of the forums with the fastest users I have seen so far

          My problem is that I have some issues eating so much fats without moving the focus of my diet from meat, fish, fowl and eggs to nuts, seeds, oil and other fats. The thruth is, since about one year, I am eating around 50% of my calories from carbs (that makes 313gram carbs!) and just 20% from fat and never had issues losing (or maintaing) fat, even when eating over maintenance (bulking). I have always avoided processed carbs but never whole grains and have been eating loads of meat, fowl and eggs (and also fruit, vegetables, yogurt and dairy products...) but just very small quantities of nuts, oils and other fats.

          Of course this does not mean that what the PB says is wrong (do not eat more than 150gram carbs), it could just be that I am lucky with carb sesitivity. And since the PB approach sounds very sound indeed I decided to give it a try to see what the results are
          Last edited by fra0039; 06-30-2011, 03:07 AM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by fra0039 View Post
            My problem is that I have some issues eating so much fats without moving the focus of my diet from meat, fish, fowl and eggs to nuts, seeds, oil and other fats. The thruth is, since about one year, I am eating around 50% of my calories from carbs (that makes 313gram carbs!) and just 20% from fat and never had issues losing (or maintaing) fat, even when eating over maintenance (bulking). I have always avoided processed carbs but never whole grains and have been eating loads of meat, fowl and eggs (and also fruit, vegetables, yogurt and dairy products...) but just very small quantities of nuts, oils and other fats.
            As you sound very happy with your existing eating program I don't really understand why you are changing it.

            I've gone primal and am very happy with the results because for me the carb cravings were out of control, as well other issues, but for someone very happy with their existing eating plan I worry that you are just setting Primal up for a fall

            You will probably feel worse for the first 3 weeks - which if you don't have the motivation of already being unhappy so you want to stick with it through that phase the chances are you will do a couple of days and then go back to your existing pattern certain that primal does not work.

            Please don't do that - either commit to sticking to it for 30 days - or stay eating as you are - and good luck to you either way.
            1st June 11 to 30st Aug 11 - 36lb removed in 13 weeks
            Messed about on and off for the rest of the year

            June 2012 - Had the practice - now time to do it for real

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            • #7
              Eat low carb whole foods. Go for cheaper, fatty cuts of meat. Slow cook them. Sticking to whole foods will stop you from overdoing the fat. Also cheaper cuts of meat, especially on the bone, will give you a balance of proteins
              Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

              Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Solldara View Post
                As you sound very happy with your existing eating program I don't really understand why you are changing it.
                Yeah I am indeed happy with my current program but I also love to try different things. Indeed, before starting with this program I was following a much lower carb one (about 35% calories from carbs) that was also good but seemed not to be suitable for bulking. And before that I tried also other ones. I guess it would get boring not to try different options :-) And, who knows, maybe with the PB I will get results I would not have thought of!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by peril View Post
                  Go for cheaper, fatty cuts of meat. Slow cook them.
                  I think you got the point. In order not to overdo with nuts/oils/other fats I would need to get much more fats from meat. My problem is that where I live it is pretty hard to get organic meat (not to talk about grass-fed one) and that means the fat I will get from meat will always be pretty bad, right? In fact, at the moment I eat almost only (non-organic) chicken and turkey (and organing eggs) and, the rare times I can find it, grass-fed beef (but not organic)

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                  • #10
                    Better off eating grain fed beef than grain fed chicken. Grain fed beef has fewer bad fats than free range chicken. Don't sweat the small things. Getting onto a whole food, grain, sugar and vegetable oil free diet is 95% of the way there
                    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If you are doing well on your current diet I would stick with it. But give PB a go if you want. You may find it hard to stomach the higher fat after your low fat intake. You could get some blood tests done to assess your health to confirm your current diet is optimum or not.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sue View Post
                        If you are doing well on your current diet I would stick with it. But give PB a go if you want. You may find it hard to stomach the higher fat after your low fat intake. You could get some blood tests done to assess your health to confirm your current diet is optimum or not.
                        Yeah I think the main message I got from the PB is to try to reduce carbs a bit in favour of fats, but do not think I will straight away move to less than 150gram carbs. And in fact I started eating 50%, and sometimes even more, carbs when I was bulking but now I am not anymore. Already a few weeks ago I eliminated potatoes from my diet (I used to eat them daily, sometimes even more than once a day) and I observed some improvements. I will now try to eliminate some whole grains. Something like 35%carbs, 30%protein and 35%fat may be my next step

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by peril View Post
                          Better off eating grain fed beef than grain fed chicken. Grain fed beef has fewer bad fats than free range chicken.
                          I do not understand this. Considering that chemicals and other bad stuff are more concentrated in the fat of the animal, doesnt it make sense to avoid non-organic meat with higher fat %?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by fra0039 View Post
                            I do not understand this. Considering that chemicals and other bad stuff are more concentrated in the fat of the animal, doesnt it make sense to avoid non-organic meat with higher fat %?
                            Depends what you consider the 'bad stuff'. The PUFA content in chicken is significantly higher than in beef, and if you rely on chicken for a significant chunk of your protein you're going to be way too high on your PUFA consumption. There is some good reason to believe that this is a worse situation than relying on conventional beef with it's more beneficial fat profile.

                            A couple general points
                            - don't necessarily get too hung up on the macronutrient ratios. Limiting carbs is a good idea for most people since it manages appetite and keeps insulin stable/low, but if you're highly active or trying to bulk up, you may need to increase carbs both in absolute terms and in relative terms.
                            - there are a whole host of healthy fats out there - butter/ghee, coconut oil, olive oil (in a bit of moderation), some nut oils (macadamia in particular is good), avocados etc. It isn't necessary to rely on meat for your fat calories, but it is convenient.

                            So, you can certainly follow the main healthy aspects of PB while having higher carb consumption from good starches, but IMHO with the range of choices for fat calories I don't see it as a necessity even on a limited budget.

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