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  • No Veggies?



    Sorry for the ignorance here but why are so many people here cutting them out completely? It seems that there has been a major shift here in the last few months with more people eating meat only.


  • #2
    1



    So glad you asked..

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    • #3
      1



      I&#39;m certain Mark hasn&#39;t cut out the veggies but it seems like a lot of people are pursuing a "Carnivore" diet which I assume is all meat. I happen to believe that the fruits and veggies are just as important and should not be cut. Fruit could be moderated if there is a need to lower sugar. As Mark says in the book, animal products are acidifying and plant foods are alkalizing. You really need the balance to have proper PH and get all of the nutrients that you need. I know that I naturally prefer to eat my protein on top of a huge salad so I can&#39;t imagine cutting that out.

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      • #4
        1



        I try to stick with herbs & simple greens that I can/could still go out and pick in meadows & forests...plenty to chose from..I enjoy japanese sweet potatoes, beets & chestnuts & try to use lots of herbs & greens like cilantro & watercress...especially herbs are nutritionally dense & have digestive properties that are positive...I am wary of modern day veggies as most folks can be wary of moder fruits - they are so far from what would be found in nature. But, I think people feel better & realize they do not need the veggies....I&#39;ll be interested in the folks here going all carnivore - why not, there are vegetarians..and frankly I think you could be healthier as a total carnivore than a total vegetarian....

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        • #5
          1



          By the way, I didn&#39;t mean I forage japanese sweet potatoes...! But, burdock, salisfy, dandelion, lamb&#39;s quarter, jerusalem artichoke, watercress, green onion shoots, mountain oregano, mint, wild ginger...it goes on & on...that&#39;s here in NorthernNM at the base of the Rockies....

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          • #6
            1



            re: carnivore - been there, done that. Here&#39;s the problem with that from a primal perspective: we&#39;re not carnivorous! Between our teeth and our digestive tracts, we are firmly omnivorous. Here&#39;s a good quick reference:


            http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...2412.Ot.r.html

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            • #7
              1



              Carnivorism is hardly any better than vegetarianism, I think. Both are too extreme.

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              • #8
                1



                While carnivorism seems attractive (faster weight loss, low insulin spike etc.), it&#39;s not for me. I love the variety veggies add to my diet. I might consider it a few years down the road, but for now, I&#39;m happy with my Primal diet and BAS.

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                • #9
                  1



                  someone posted a link to carnivorehealth in some other post...worth looking at

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                  • #10
                    1



                    I am not carnivore at the moment since I am at my &#39;rents place for thanksgiving and don&#39;t want to impose...BUT


                    I have found that eating only meat and fat has reduced my body inflammation enormously, even more than just being primal, as well as provided mental and physical health benefits, especially with red meat but also deer meat, buffalo, squirrel etc. Before venturing into something like this you should be okay with producing ketones and being in ketosis. It&#39;s not easy at first since we&#39;ve been so long using carbs for energy.


                    Damn near every carbohydrate gives me a flare up of inflammation on my face with dry skin and redness. I must be allergic to everything there is that contains sugar.


                    The fact of the matter is, most people should not be strictly carnivore. People whose ancestry goes back to around the equator should eat many carbs..but my peoples were northern european and they ate meat. If you live in a temperate climate, just go outside into the woods. Show me all the berries and fruits and vegetables and grains lying around if you can...

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                    • #11
                      1



                      I accidentally did carnivore for about a week. There were no fresh veggies in the house and we had a lot of chicken and meat still around so I ate only that. By the 5th day I felt like something wasn&#39;t right. A few days later I had some vegetables and immediately felt better! Not to say that I completely disregard a carnivorous diet. Meat tastes great!

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                      • #12
                        1



                        As someone who is passing on fruits and veggies, I&#39;ll explain why.


                        I&#39;m sure Mark eats lots of veggies. I&#39;m also sure Mark was never fat. I was. I&#39;m still struggling to lose flab, and cutting veggies helps the process. Eventually you just get to a certain point where that&#39;s all that really helps, if anything at all. For me the goal is to try to shed more fat.


                        Not to mention I failed to plan for the seasons, so come winter time in my climate, meat would have been pretty much the only thing on the menu.


                        It&#39;s not that I don&#39;t like vegetables. I like them, but I&#39;m fine without them too. When spring and summer roll around I&#39;m sure I&#39;ll eat a great deal more produce, because it&#39;s in season. I&#39;ve found that eating foods only when they grow naturally has really helped me get in touch with the seasons. (As a lazy Pagan who has let the mundane world take over her life.)

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                        • #13
                          1



                          Here is a link which has been posted before on the forum:

                          http://www.carnivorehealth.com/main/2009/4/5/the-case-against-fruits-vegetables.html


                          I used to be a fruit/veggie fiend, and after reading the posts of carnivores on MDA, I tried it for a few months. I find that it&#39;s great for fat loss and satiation (I could never seem to eat enough fruits and veggies to feel full). Being in ketosis just makes me feel lean and &#39;light&#39;. The only downside is that it can be impossible to maintain if you have little control over your meals (school cafeteria, and social events), and I now feel bloated when I eat even a little bit of fruit or veggies.

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                          • #14
                            1



                            I start off every morning with an apple, which usually keeps me satiated from 7:30 to 11:30, when I eat lunch. I try to eat two salads a day, a small one for lunch and a much large one for dinner, both drenched in olive oil, a small amount of vinegar, and a few pinches of oregano. Delicious.


                            I find that without doing that I spend 20 minutes on the toilet once a day instead of 2 minutes twice a day.


                            Also, apropos to fat loss, perhaps people aren&#39;t losing weight because they aren&#39;t exercising enough. As Jack Lalanne says, "exercise is king and nutrition is queen, put them together and you have a kingdom." Most vegetables are mainly indigestible because they are composed of beta-glucose/cellulose/fiber, which the body cannot digest and which is necessary to provide structure to bowel movements. Therefore, eating a large amount of veggies doesn&#39;t provide much bioavailable carbohydrates like most fruits and grains.


                            When I was wrestling last year, I got down to 142 pounds (7% body fat) easily while eating a diet heavy with grains and light on meat and vegetables. Now that I eat primal and don&#39;t wrestle, I gained that ten pounds of body fat back and stand around 152. It&#39;s really exercise that counts, nutrition can only do so much for mere mortals.

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                            • #15
                              1



                              I just don&#39;t see the need for fruit and veg.


                              Over the years I just naturally progressed more towards carnivorous. I still eat some fruit and veg, but not a lot.


                              Fruit and veg aren&#39;t required for health.


                              They don&#39;t affect acidity (http://www.quackwatch.org/01Quackery...SH/coral2.html ).


                              It&#39;s likely that our digestive system and teeth are remnants of our diet some 10&#39;s of Millions years ago that evolution has had no need to &#39;clean up&#39;


                              While our digestive system is not best suited to processing lots of meat, it copes well enough that there has not been evolutionary pressure for adaptation. Similar change of diet without significant adaptation can be seen in reverse in some animals such as the giant panda which has a carnivorous evolutionary history but has evolved to eat a vegetarian diet.


                              If anything this points to a more carnivorous diet due to the differences between man and other primates (http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/sho...carb-diet.html ).


                              Looking at the stable isotope testing of fossil remains, it is likely that paleo man was almost completely carnivorous (like the neanderthals).


                              More info:

                              http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/l...rians-part-ii/

                              http://nature.berkeley.edu/miltonlab/pdfs/meateating.pdf


                              At the end of the day we are pretty adaptable to a variety of foods (check out the Ethnographic Atlas). If you want to eat some fruit and veg (and feel better for it) then do, but there&#39;s nothing wrong with going carnivorous.

                              The "Seven Deadly Sins"

                              Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
                              Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
                              Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

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