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  • #61

    Tarlach, glad to see you're getting the results you're looking for. As am I with a similar diet to yours. I agree with you 100% on grass fed meat. You need to make it happen even if it means giving up something else. $7 per pound grass fed beef is a far better bargain than the $2.99 corn fed.

    I just read The Omnivore's Dilemma and it reinforced what I already knew about how horrible grain fed meat really is.


    • #62

      Raphael> I don't eat the Primal Diet. I eat paleo, which just evolved over time to become fairly low carb.

      I don't avoid carbs that much. I usually eat some carbs when we have dinner with guests. My wife also makes paleo ingredient snacks on occasion (using some whole fruits) or I will snack on fruit/veg when I feel like it. I'm not worried about being 100% zero carb or not.

      The rest of the time I don't have any real desire or need for them.

      If I eat carbs:

      • I am very hungry 30 minutes later (mostly for more carbs)

      • I need more food, more often throughout the day. I end up eating more meat AND a load of carbs.

      • If it is sweet fruit, I get an irritated throat from the sugar.

      • I get a carb crash after a few hours

      • I need to go to the toilet more often (and it's worse)

      • I feel worse the next day.

      If I stick to all meat

      • I'm never 'starving' hungry. I can eat when I want.

      (That means I don't have to eat trash when I am out, I can eat good food when it suits me).

      • My energy levels are much more stable

      • I don't get sick

      • I sleep much better

      Now that I am over my sugar addiction, I just don't get that excited about carbs anymore.

      For me, it's just not worth it to eat carbs, just because they may help glycogen stores refill a bit quicker. I'm still adding to my lifts, so I'm not worried that my performance is suffering. Not eating anything in the 'carb re-feed window' is supposed to elevate HGH levels higher and longer anyway.

      If it takes me slightly longer to gain, then so be it. I don't think the negatives are worth it.

      The "Seven Deadly Sins"

      Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
      Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
      Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)


      • #63

        @Bazt and Tarlach

        You didn't say if you are into competitive bodybuilding.

        If you are then I would give more weight to your opinions. Otherwise we are just having individual opinions without personal experience.

        I didn't say that you cannot gain muscles on ZC. You can gain muscles on any diet plan, but to different limits. ZC will obviously give you more muscles than SAD.

        I believe incorporating small amount of carbs at correct times will help the muscle gain, and will allow obtaining more muscles compared to plain ZC.

        Unless somebody chimes in with personal experience with this we are not making any headway here.

        Raphael has already told that he has not been able to feel better even though he was VLC for 3 months so obviously it is not working for him. Assuming that he has been cheating is not good.

        This is how SAD doctors have been approaching the problem of failures from their patients. Assuming that they have been cheating on their recommended diet and making no headway.

        How is your approach better?

        We only improve our understanding when we try to understand new data. Raphael is providing new data and you are ignoring it.

        I understand Tarlach's point of view and agree that he is doing well, and his diet matches his goals.

        But Raphael is not doing well on VLC, and his diet is not matching his goals. Why can't we accept that people can have different goals and different bodies?


        • #64

          Since when did the thread become about Raphael and VLC?

          Original question -

          "Has anyone following the Primal Diet been able to add mass without adding body fat"

          GtrBMart - I have been gaining tons of muscle mass while losing body fat

          Diana Renata - you can build muscle just fine on PB

          bobbylight and Raphael waffle on about carbs and not the question

          Get Primal - eat a primal diet and you'll gain plenty of muscle while melting fat.

          bazt - I could happily eat nothing but steak and eggs and still slap on muscle, and in fact do

          Raphael - waffle about carbs again

          Tarlach - I'm bulking and losing body fat

          hypnotik - Went from a 34" waist to a 32, while putting on 11 lbs. I have to say that PB definitely works for me

          PapaG44 - I have never bulked up as quickly as I have with PB. I lost fat too

          lots more off-topic waffle from Tarlach, Rapael, chima_p and Anand Srivastava

          Anand Srivastava - You can gain muscles on any diet plan

          So at the end of the day we all agree that you can build muscle and not add body fat on PB?

          Seems we aren't all that different after all...

          If you want to add muscle faster at the expense of health, then that's a different subject altogether.

          Possible solutions would range from adding a lot more carbs up to steroids and other nefarious supplements. Most of which I doubt many here are interested in discussing.

          The "Seven Deadly Sins"

          Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
          Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
          Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)