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  • #16
    1



    ^ No you don't.

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    • #17
      1



      How so?

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      • #18
        1



        Me: 40 yr old male. Long history as a runner. Until about 18 months ago was a long distance runner only. About 6&#39; tall and just under 170lbs when I was running my best. Wore 32" jeans. May not sound that skinny, but with my frame people thought I was sick I was so skinny. Ate nothing but carbs for the most part.


        Changed to primal diet...very low carb. Began supplementing running with Crossfit style workouts. I currently weight about 192. I don&#39;t measure bodyfat but I promise you it&#39;s lower than when I weighed 170. I still wear 32" jeans, the thighs are just more snug. I&#39;ve lost bodyfat and gained over 20 lbs in a little over a year (took me a few months in the beginning to get rolling). My wife cannot believe how muscular I am.


        Arthur, eat a primal diet and do hardcore intense strength workouts (not necessarily heavy weight, I seldom go very heavy) and you&#39;ll gain plenty of muscle while melting fat.


        I know very little about the bodybuilding world other than the one person that I occasionally workout with that participates in bodybuilding. He most certainly doesn&#39;t eat a high carb diet, and he&#39;s big as a truck. He&#39;s very lean and eats a very high fat/protein diet.

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        • #19
          1



          You tell me!


          I could happily eat nothing but steak and eggs and still slap on muscle, and in fact do! Remember Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase in the volume of the non contractile muscle cell fluid, sarcoplasm and accounts for 25-30% of the muscle’s size, now, you eat carbs you pull water/glycogen into the muscle making them look pumped up, Myofibrillar hypertrophy, on the other hand, is enlargement of the muscle fiber as it gains more myofibrils. Building muscle doesn&#39;t rely on carbs, it&#39;s more to do with how you train, then what you eat.


          edit: I&#39;m not saying I slap on muscle with ease...I have to work hard to do so, like everyone else, just saying you don&#39;t necessarily need carbs to do so.

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          • #20
            1



            You need carbs to replenish your glycogen stores, otherwise protein will be converted into glucose for that. That&#39;s a big waste of protein. You either eat some 300 grams of protein to compensate for the carb deficit, or you just eat some damned carbs to get the job done. Which one do you prefer?


            I went about 3 months on a super-low-carb diet and I didn&#39;t gain an gram of muscle mass. Now that I started eating carbs again (just ~100 grams a day: enough for glycogen stores) I feel MUCH better. Everything has improved.


            arthurb999, eat carbs. You don&#39;t need to lose any weight, anyways.

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            • #21
              1



              I do eat carbs... I get between 100-150 grams a day... 2 fruits 2 veggies, whole milk, almonds and cheese.


              i&#39;ve bumped up my food intake and we&#39;ll see what happens

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              • #22
                1



                Ah okay. That&#39;s a great carb range to be on.

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                • #23
                  1



                  Rapha, what can I say, what works for some people may not work for others. I think you should to read up on Glycogen replenishment, it&#39;s not all about glycogen replenishment and it really isn&#39;t as simple as you put it, not forgetting what I said about "how" you train and the utilisation of different energy pathways. (The Anaerobic (ATP-CP) Energy System/ The Anaerobic Lactate (Glycolytic) System/ The Aerobic Energy System)


                  Glycogen replenishment isn&#39;t even the big factor in this anyway, a wet cell is a bigger cell, a bigger cell is a stronger cell. *But* it all comes down to how you train. You don&#39;t *need* carbs.

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                  • #24
                    1



                    Your muscle uses glycogen for the big lifts. How are you going to train properly if you don&#39;t have stored energy?

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                    • #25
                      1



                      I think all this muscle glycogen stuff is bunk. Do you have any proof or research to back up your statements, Raphael, except the fact that you had trouble lifting when going low carb? Rather than slinging around opinions as facts I would like to see at least a little research to back up your wild claims, besides the fact that "everybody knows muscles need glycogen".

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                      • #26
                        1



                        I feel better with more carbs, started breaking the plateau, and lift heavier; that&#39;s enough for -me-. Besides, it was from the advice from this forum that I decided to re-add carbs in my diet. I&#39;m not the only one here who advocates moderate carb consumption along with bodybuilding. I was very skeptical about carbs at first, too.


                        There really is no reason to deprive the body of carbs if you&#39;re not looking to lose weight or if you don&#39;t have a health problem. If you want to bulk, then carbs will definitely help you. How is that wrong?

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                        • #27
                          1



                          Here is some information I&#39;ve found from reading statements by other zero carbers, and while I cannot prove any of it, I would be interested in any research that can DISprove it.


                          "The muscles only use free fatty acids complexed with n-acetylcarnitine to provide the energy to reverse ADP to ATP, no carbs are consumed in this process, either as glucose or as glycogen.


                          The famous &#39;wall&#39; hit by runners etc., indicates a problem in mobilising bodyfat in a carb-loading individual once dietary circulating fat is consumed. It doesn&#39;t happen in those who are already burning fat for energy because....they&#39;re already burning fat for energy so using up glycogen stores isn&#39;t a problem as the body switches to fat without breaking stride.


                          Glycogen is stored around the body and is used as a fast resource when blood sugar drops- since glucose is not consumed by skeletal muscles it remains in the tissues.


                          The reason carbs are promoted so vigorously in the magazines, thus in forums, is due to the publishers financial interests- they are all manufacturers of &#39;supplements&#39; which are always carb-based sugar and starch being far cheaper than protein."

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                          • #28
                            1



                            It&#39;s not "wrong", it just begs some questions. How long were you VLC before you started training? Could your body still have been adapting to burning solely fat as fuel? Do you consume more calories now that you are eating more carbohydrates. Could any of your results been overcoming a mental plateau rather than physical?


                            To say "deprive" is implying that our bodies need carbs as a requirement. Obviously, that&#39;s not true.


                            I would be willing to introduce some carbs before and after weight sessions if I found reason that such an act is truly beneficial.

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                            • #29
                              1



                              Everything I have read confirms that muscles use carbs (glycogen) for heavy lifting. You can get away with zero-carb cardio, because your body will be burning fat for energy. But with intense weight lifting, you need the carbs. That&#39;s what I have learned, but if you think you have anything to teach me, I&#39;m open for it. But I really don&#39;t want to give up my new found love now: sweet potatoes.


                              One thing I don&#39;t advocate, though, is carbs post work out. That&#39;s where the marketing comes in.

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                              • #30
                                1



                                Heh, OK. I suppose my only beef is that I kept seeing you making posts based on personal opinion/experience that you convey as cold, hard fact rather than prefacing with words such as "what has worked for me is..." or "It&#39;s my impression". Just here to play devils advocate, making sure no gospel is being thrown around.

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