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  • The 72 Hour Carb Refeed Experiment

    As many of you may know, I've been on a carb refeed kick lately. Come to think of it, you all are probably sick of it by now. While I truly believe that the Primal Blueprint is the ultimate guide to health and well-being, I believe that carb cycling is the most efficient path to weight loss, especially cutting down to very lean levels of body fat. I have written about carb cycling here for all to read. I'm going to now put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to post up for all to see a 4 week carb cycling experiment. I will sacrifice my body to science, and everyone will see whether this theory is the golden goose or a pile of goose shit. Here's how the game will be played.

    My heaviest workout days will be lumped together. During this lump, I will be eating high carb/lower fat/high calorie. On my low level cardio days and off days - the recovery period - I will be following the Primal Blueprint. I will try to keep my ratios around 60% fat, 25-30% protein, 10-15% carbs on those days, and I will attempt to eat lower calorie. This will give a "carb cycling" and "calorie cycling" effect.

    I have been eating high carb on my workout days for two weeks now, but I'm not seeing or "feeling" the results I want to feel. I think the problem is I'm doing a simple 24 hour refeed, packing on water weight and just when I begin to lose some of that water weight, I'm back in another refeed cycle. I'm going to do this by lumping all my refeed days together, then having a 4 day detox to shed the water weight and really see results. Plus, I have a hunch (based on people's plans I've seen in the past) that carb cycling is more effective when you lump it all together, then go several days without many carbs. This will test this theory. So, without further ado, here is my plan:

    Monday: High fat/low carb/low level cardio
    Tuesday: High fat/low carb/core workout
    Wednesday: High fat/low carb/24 hour IF/off from the gym completely
    Thursday: High fat/low carb/low level cardio
    Friday: Low fat/high carb/shoulders/arms
    Saturday: Low fat/high carb/HIIT
    Sunday: Low fat/high carb/chest/back

    - Low level cardio will consist of a 4 mile jog at a 5.0 mph pace. This will take approximately 45 minutes.
    - 24 hour IF's will be a fast from 8pm on Tuesday night til 8pm on Wednesday night. I will eat a smaller meal Wednesday night before bed, and it will be high fat/low carb.

    I'm hoping this will show everyone what a carb cycle really looks like. I feel people learn through example better than reading some boring technical article.

    I took these pictures right after the gym this evening, so this is what I'm working with:





    I weighed 138 lbs as of tonight. My guess is I'll have to get around 130 to be as lean as I'd like to be.

    The fun will begin on Friday night. Let the games begin.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-22-2011, 07:25 PM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  • #2
    kick ass. i'm really looking forward to see how this works out for you.
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

    Comment


    • #3
      Will be watching as well, perhaps quietly participating but given my bad organizational skills and my awesome Hispanic mom I haven't been cooking anything in almost 2-3 months. Arroz con pollo all day! (bad for re-feeds though =/ .. ) Are you gonna post up meals/macros or just giving a general idea? I don't particularly care for numbers, but some do I guess.

      I'm surprised you weigh so little, aren't you like 5'7'? I'm 5'7' and 150. My lowest ever has been 143 for literally a day or two.

      I must have more muscle than you
      I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds interesting, especially the grouping of your high carb days together. I think that would give better results than doing them spaced out throughout the week, but I don't have any real scientific proof that it would. It just seems that your insulin sensitivity would increase over the course of the 3 day carb-up, but I could be wrong.

        Off-topic: No resistance training for legs?! Where are the squats and deadlifts?

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't see a 72 hour refeed working tbh. But I'm ready to be amazed.
          You have exactly the same build as me btw. Except that I have slightly more of everything. That being fat, muscle and length :P.

          Comment


          • #6
            If you don't mind, I'll insert sort of a "shameless plug" of my progress in the past 1.5 years because I think it can be useful as similar example to your goals. (Feel free to ask to remove the links or the whole post if they're not appropriate)

            So, here I am nearly 2 years ago (September 2009):
            * Height: 6'5 (1.95 m)
            * Weight: 194 lbs (88 kg)
            * BF%: 10-12 (a guess)
            * Training: virtually none

            pic 1 pic 2 pic 3


            9 months ago (October 2010):
            * Weight: 181 lbs (82 kg)
            * BF%: 7-8 (a guess)
            * Training: virtually none




            3 months ago (March 2011):
            * Weight: 185 lbs (84 kg)
            * BF%: 6 (measured with caliper by the 7-skinfolds method)
            * Training: a single pull-up




            Today (June 2011) (unflexed/flexed):
            * Training: around 10 pull-ups, 10 pistol squats (just mentioning the hardest exercises)




            So, to recap, I do some "weird" combination of primal, IF-ing, and carb refeeds:
            * daily Intermittent Fasting: eating between 19:00-00:00
            * during the week, eating mostly chicken breasts, eggs, green/tomato salads and similar
            * fruit: almost every day; in the summer, lots of fruit...
            * every 3-4-5 days (once/twice a week): rice, (chinese) spaghetti, (shame on me) junk - pizza, ice cream, cookies.
            Last edited by trippplez; 06-23-2011, 06:46 AM.
            Me@twitter

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by trippplez View Post
              If you don't mind, I'll insert sort of a "shameless plug" of my progress in the past 1.5 years because I think it can be useful as similar example to your goals. (Feel free to ask to remove the links or the whole post if they're not appropriate)

              So, here I am nearly 2 years ago (September 2009):
              * Height: 6'5 (1.95 m)
              * Weight: 194 lbs (88 kg)
              * BF%: 10-12 (a guess)
              * Training: virtually none

              pic 1 pic 2 pic 3


              9 months ago (October 2010):
              * Weight: 181 lbs (82 kg)
              * BF%: 7-8 (a guess)
              * Training: virtually none




              3 months ago (March 2011):
              * Weight: 185 lbs (84 kg)
              * BF%: 6 (measured with caliper by the 7-skinfolds method)
              * Training: a single pull-up




              Today (June 2011) (unflexed/flexed):
              * Training: around 10 pull-ups, 10 pistol squats (just mentioning the hardest exercises)




              So, to recap, I do some "weird" combination of primal, IF-ing, and carb refeeds:
              * daily Intermittent Fasting: eating between 19:00-00:00
              * during the week, eating mostly chicken breasts, eggs, green/tomato salads and similar
              * fruit: almost every day; in the summer, lots of fruit...
              * every 3-4-5 days (once/twice a week): rice, (chinese) spaghetti, (shame on me) junk - pizza, ice cream, cookies.
              awesome stuff.
              If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                I'm surprised you weigh so little, aren't you like 5'7'? I'm 5'7' and 150. My lowest ever has been 143 for literally a day or two.

                I must have more muscle than you
                I'm absolutely stunned how much body fat is on our bodies. Let me put it in perspective: I've dropped 10 pounds since joining this site. My strength has not only maintained, but has increased slightly. I am still only halfway to a six pack. My guess is I'll have to drop to 133 before I'm lean enough to have full on abs. I'm betting you will have to drop around 130-135 pounds to have a six pack as well. It's astonishing how much body fat you still have, even at 12%. Remember, 12% body fat on a 138 pound man is STILL 17 pounds of fat. I'm going to have to cut 4 pounds of body fat to get under 10%. When you factor in water retention lost with all that body fat loss, you get to my magic number of 133. Make no mistake, it is HARD to lose 4 pounds of body fat when you only have 16.5 pounds of fat on your entire body.

                And yes, I'm 5'7". This would be a lot easier if I had height, haha.
                Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                  Sounds interesting, especially the grouping of your high carb days together. I think that would give better results than doing them spaced out throughout the week, but I don't have any real scientific proof that it would. It just seems that your insulin sensitivity would increase over the course of the 3 day carb-up, but I could be wrong.
                  I used to do 48 hour carb refeeds, and I felt better and I think I was losing more fat than doing three 24 hour refeeds on my heaviest lifting days. It's like my body can't get into a rhythm on this cycle. I'm loving the 72 hour refeed idea and it fits into my schedule so much better. Plus, if I visit grandma on a Sunday, I may say "fuck it" and have my first bowl of pasta in 3-4 months. I'll just take an N-acetyl glucosamine beforehand to block the wheat lectins, a probiotic beforehand to counteract the gluten and the carbs are just what I'd need. White pasta is relatively low GI anyway and I've never been gluten sensitive.

                  Originally posted by yodiewan View Post
                  Off-topic: No resistance training for legs?! Where are the squats and deadlifts?
                  Absolutely. I do squats FIRST before every weight training exercise. I do deadlifts following squats EVERY OTHER weight training exercise. That will equate to squats 3 times a week and deadlifts cycling between twice a week and once a week.
                  Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by MvEssen View Post
                    I don't see a 72 hour refeed working tbh. But I'm ready to be amazed.
                    You have exactly the same build as me btw. Except that I have slightly more of everything. That being fat, muscle and length :P.
                    Lucky you. I wish I had more of a frame to work with. I have a lot of trouble putting on any mass at all on my arms or shoulders. I can only build up a chest, and even that isn't anything impressive.

                    I can tell you that I felt more success on 48 hour refeeds than on these three 24 hour cycles I do now. I physically felt better, I performed better and I looked better, not to mention it was easier to schedule. Back in the days where I used to read Bodybuilding.com and all the success stories, it seemed the people that did High/high/high/low/low/low/low had more success than the people with their high carb days sporadically thrown throughout the week. I'm going to go with this, and I love the convenience of having my heaviest workout days AND eating days on Friday, Saturday and Sunday as they're the most likely days I'll go out to eat or drink alcohol. I can easily control my meals Monday thru Thursday, but for example, this Friday I have my friend's 24th birthday, so I will be starting Day 1 with alcohol.
                    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      As many of you may know, I've been on a carb refeed kick lately. Come to think of it, you all are probably sick of it by now. While I truly believe that the Primal Blueprint is the ultimate guide to health and well-being, I believe that carb cycling is the most efficient path to weight loss, especially cutting down to very lean levels of body fat. I have written about carb cycling here for all to read. I'm going to now put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to post up for all to see a 4 week carb cycling experiment. I will sacrifice my body to science, and everyone will see whether this theory is the golden goose or a pile of goose shit. Here's how the game will be played.

                      My heaviest workout days will be lumped together. During this lump, I will be eating high carb/lower fat/high calorie. On my low level cardio days and off days - the recovery period - I will be following the Primal Blueprint. I will try to keep my ratios around 60% fat, 25-30% protein, 10-15% carbs on those days, and I will attempt to eat lower calorie. This will give a "carb cycling" and "calorie cycling" effect.

                      I have been eating high carb on my workout days for two weeks now, but I'm not seeing or "feeling" the results I want to feel. I think the problem is I'm doing a simple 24 hour refeed, packing on water weight and just when I begin to lose some of that water weight, I'm back in another refeed cycle. I'm going to do this by lumping all my refeed days together, then having a 4 day detox to shed the water weight and really see results. Plus, I have a hunch (based on people's plans I've seen in the past) that carb cycling is more effective when you lump it all together, then go several days without many carbs. This will test this theory. So, without further ado, here is my plan:

                      Monday: High fat/low carb/low level cardio
                      Tuesday: High fat/low carb/core workout
                      Wednesday: High fat/low carb/24 hour IF/off from the gym completely
                      Thursday: High fat/low carb/low level cardio
                      Friday: Low fat/high carb/shoulders/arms
                      Saturday: Low fat/high carb/HIIT
                      Sunday: Low fat/high carb/chest/back

                      - Low level cardio will consist of a 4 mile jog at a 5.0 mph pace. This will take approximately 45 minutes.
                      - 24 hour IF's will be a fast from 8pm on Tuesday night til 8pm on Wednesday night. I will eat a smaller meal Wednesday night before bed, and it will be high fat/low carb.

                      I'm hoping this will show everyone what a carb cycle really looks like. I feel people learn through example better than reading some boring technical article.

                      I took these pictures right after the gym this evening, so this is what I'm working with:





                      I weighed 138 lbs as of tonight. My guess is I'll have to get around 130 to be as lean as I'd like to be.

                      The fun will begin on Friday night. Let the games begin.
                      Damn bro the difference since your first photos is great! Ill be watching. Good info thanks!
                      After hearing you say how surprised you are how much body fat is in there it makes sense why my target weight is 170lbs. Seems so far away at this point.
                      My name is Matt and I am a Beef Jerky Wizard.
                      www.greenlightjerky.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Pretty impressive, trippplez. Do you always eat so low fat? I strongly prefer steak due to chicken not only for taste, but for inflammation reasons. Do you ever eat brown rice and wheat?
                        Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by GreenLightJerky View Post
                          Damn bro the difference since your first photos is great! Ill be watching. Good info thanks!
                          After hearing you say how surprised you are how much body fat is in there it makes sense why my target weight is 170lbs. Seems so far away at this point.
                          Thanks a lot, it feels good to know I'm having success. Your target weight isn't nearly as far away as you think it is. To be honest, I'm barely even working at this. I eat ice cream I make from scratch all the time. If you look at so-called "calorie calculators", I eat 500 calories over what I need to lose body fat every damn day. I eat above what they call "maintenance". I eat ample amounts of coconut flour. Hell, last weekend I got myself a big chocolate and vanilla custard with their fake hot fudge all over it.

                          The thing I've learned most while doing this is the worst thing you can do is eat the same stuff over and over again, be it prolonged high carb or prolonged low carb. Obviously prolonged high carb is far worse, but both are just unnatural. Human beings ate whatever they could get their hands on. Some days, it was nothing but meat. Others, they ate themselves into a glucose coma when they found a mango grove. Human beings are natural carb cyclers.

                          I wish I could break the cycle of people that are terrified of carbs on this forum, because it would help them achieve their goals. It's the same principle as fat - there are good carb sources and bad carb sources. Just like margarine and canola oil are terrible fat sources, wheat, sugar and some legumes are terrible carb sources. However, white rice, skinless potatoes and soaked/fermented beans with a little fruit is healthy for you. What matters is when you eat them and in what quantity. I feel I'm proving this. If you don't believe me, read my lab results here and tell me I'm not doing well in terms of health

                          When I truly achieve my goal, I may even treat myself to my homemade, long fermented sourdough wheat bread. Apparently, highly fermented sourdough is actually quite low in toxins, and I seem to be able to handle gluten. I'll just regularly monitor my weight, have regular blood tests and pay attention to my digestion. I'll know if my body is rejecting something. Remember the food porn thread? I smell an "Official Cheat Meal Thread".
                          Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 06-23-2011, 10:23 AM.
                          Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                            Thanks a lot, it feels good to know I'm having success. Your target weight isn't nearly as far away as you think it is. To be honest, I'm barely even working at this. I eat ice cream I make from scratch all the time. If you look at so-called "calorie calculators", I eat 500 calories over what I need to lose body fat every damn day. I eat above what they call "maintenance". I eat ample amounts of coconut flour. Hell, last weekend I got myself a big chocolate and vanilla custard with their fake hot fudge all over it.

                            The thing I've learned most while doing this is the worst thing you can do is eat the same stuff over and over again, be it prolonged high carb or prolonged low carb. Obviously prolonged high carb is far worse, but both are just unnatural. Human beings ate whatever they could get their hands on. Some days, it was nothing but meat. Others, they ate themselves into a glucose coma when they found a mango grove. Human beings are natural carb cyclers.

                            I wish I could break the cycle of people that are terrified of carbs on this forum, because it would help them achieve their goals. It's the same principle as fat - there are good carb sources and bad carb sources. Just like margarine and canola oil are terrible fat sources, wheat, sugar and some legumes are terrible carb sources. However, white rice, skinless potatoes and soaked/fermented beans with a little fruit are healthy for you. What matter is when you eat them and in what quantity. I feel I'm proving this. If you don't believe me, read my lab results here and tell me I'm not doing well in terms of health
                            Variety is the spice of life.
                            Eating foods that are local and in season only really ensure that you keep your food choices changing.
                            Am I right in being really strict on carbs because of my current weight (5'10" 219) ?
                            The first 4 weeks I was in the 50-100 carb range and saw changes physically but no weight was lost. The last 9 days or so I dropped below 50 and have lost 13lbs so I finally feel like I started my fat burning and calmed my blood sugar.
                            My name is Matt and I am a Beef Jerky Wizard.
                            www.greenlightjerky.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              .

                              Wow, what a crazy coincidence! I'm just starting my carb cycling today. I'm going to try the leangains version - higher carbs on workout days.... I will be posting pictures and adding to my journal tonight - detailing why i'm switching it up and what my plan is - here: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread32819.html I'm 5'7" 160 - crazy all us midgets are getting together - lol! I guess I will be detailing it from an older guys perspective being I'm 41. Lets get lean!

                              -Voyageur

                              .
                              There is a huge difference between talking about how to do something and getting it fucking done.

                              Comment

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