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Don Matesz of Primal Wisdom says Farewell to Paleo??

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  • Don Matesz of Primal Wisdom says Farewell to Paleo??

    Really? I thought all he did was research night and day. For him to change his mind like this is kind of baffling to me.

    I've been questioning my Paleo diet, too, unfortunately. I love eating this way, but I'm concerned about my newly developed leg cramps and restless legs at night. Also, I'm having problems with constipation and my baby is displaying signs of food intolerance. I'm a little concerned about my growing kids (other two are 5 and 3). If I'm experiencing this, and they are eating the same as me, aren't they deficient in something, too? I don't want to supplement them with magnesium, potassium, etc. because I really don't know how it will effect them.

    Geez...why can't this be easy?

    But enough about me...what is your take on Don's switch??

  • #2
    Primal Wisdom: Farewell To "Paleo"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Rainbird2 View Post
      I love eating this way, but I'm concerned about my newly developed leg cramps and restless legs at night. Also, I'm having problems with constipation and my baby is displaying signs of food intolerance.
      Interesting, because I was developing restless leg symptoms and they disappeared when I went Primal.

      Is it actual constipation (discomfort, etc) or are you just not pooping as often as you're used to? Most people seem to produce a lot less because there isn't as much waste from the grains.
      Durp.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Rainbird2 View Post
        Really? I thought all he did was research night and day. For him to change his mind like this is kind of baffling to me.

        I've been questioning my Paleo diet, too, unfortunately. I love eating this way, but I'm concerned about my newly developed leg cramps and restless legs at night. Also, I'm having problems with constipation and my baby is displaying signs of food intolerance. I'm a little concerned about my growing kids (other two are 5 and 3). If I'm experiencing this, and they are eating the same as me, aren't they deficient in something, too? I don't want to supplement them with magnesium, potassium, etc. because I really don't know how it will effect them.

        Geez...why can't this be easy?

        But enough about me...what is your take on Don's switch??
        You are probably having a deficiency in Magnesium or possibly potassium. Many paleo eaters need to supplement with Mg.
        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

        http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jammies View Post
          You are probably having a deficiency in Magnesium or possibly potassium. Many paleo eaters need to supplement with Mg.
          But why when I eat foods that are supposedly highest in magnesium and potassium? And I eat organic, local when I can. And no gluten/grains that inhibit absorption... When I try to take a magnesium supplement, it messes with my bowels and causes me to be a raging bitch. Why??? And again, if I'm deficient, what about my kids? Am I supposed to supplement them, too?

          And why did Don leave Paleo?

          Comment


          • #6
            Yep, you're deficient. If you take one thing away from Don (you should only take one thing away from Don ) it is that your average person eating a diet like this is at risk for a few nutritional deficiencies. Cover your ass, yo.

            I don't know what you mean by "the foods highest in potassium". Tomatoes have plenty of potassium but if you only eat 1 tomato you don't get a lot of potassium. Do you use fitday or other nutrition trackers?
            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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            • #7
              Interesting.... but poorly referenced, and totally anecdotal. I hope he has found something that works for him...

              Someone posted the paleo diet vs the paleo template blog post the other day... and that really resonated with me. I think there is a basic framework of whole foods that does not include cereal grains or neolithic foods - and within that framework is the "right" diet for most everyone.

              I'm open to experimentation - I know something is amiss for me as my hormones are out of whack and I have heightened anxiety/mental chatter. So... is that more carbs, less carbs, more fat, less fat.... less meat, more veggies, less fruit? no nuts, no dairy?? So, I'll tinker within the paleo framework to find something that works well for me.

              I think the framework is sound for a paleo diet, I really do...
              Robin
              ~primal mama to 3~

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                Yep, you're deficient. If you take one thing away from Don (you should only take one thing away from Don ) it is that your average person eating a diet like this is at risk for a few nutritional deficiencies. Cover your ass, yo.

                I don't know what you mean by "the foods highest in potassium". Tomatoes have plenty of potassium but if you only eat 1 tomato you don't get a lot of potassium. Do you use fitday or other nutrition trackers?
                According to WHFoods:

                WHFoods: potassium

                WHFoods: magnesium

                Aside from the legumes, I eat everything on these lists, daily...why the deficiencies??

                And why the anger issues with supplementing with Natural Calm?

                And should I supplement my kids if a Paleo diet causes deficiencies? What diet DOESN'T cause deficiencies? I thought Paleo was best...what am I doing to my kiddos?? I thought this was good for them.

                I'm a little sad right now.

                Anyone give supplements to their kids? Maybe I should start a separate post for this.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Okay I don't know then. I think you need to take a step back because you sound very anxious and not mentally healthy, could stressing over everything possibly be causes your problems? You say that you have problems but you have absolutely no deficiencies and you are doing everything right apparently (although I still don't know if you are actually eating a lot of these high-magnesium foods, like I said, the simple fact that you eat these foods doesn't mean you eat a lot of them, enough to get at least the RDA for magnesium and potassium. I simply don't know that). You are worried about your kids. Go back to eating junk and step stressing so much about food? I mean you clearly had better health eating what you were before.

                  As a side note there is such thing as too much protein for some people, especially muscle meat protein. Large amounts of methionine-rich protein can cause problems for many people, especially if they are coming from a history of health conditions. Too little carbohydrate can do it, it definitely causes problems for some people. Whoever said that you needed to limit yourself to X amount of carbohydrates might have been wrong. There is no reason why someone can't get healthy and achieve optimal body composition eating as much primal carbohydrate as they want.

                  You shouldn't have an adverse reaction to magnesium, it sounds like you might have malabsorption issues from a leaky gut (not just caused by grain lectins, caused by tons of stuff). You could try incorporating more gelatin and less muscle meat into your diet and see what happens. I think that gelatinous proteins like bone broth and gelatin powder are essential. That is a paleo diet. Hunter-gatherers eat connective tissues and whatnot.

                  Lastly, your kids certainly don't need to be on a low carbohydrate diet. I don't know if they are, you only said paleo, but certainly don't restrict them macronutrients except for too much polyunsaturated fat. I bet your kids could benefit from magnesium. Even if food is organic it's not necessarily going to have a lot of magnesium, it depends upon the soil. Are you taking vitamin ? Vitamin d increases the need for magnesium, that's why I think everyone should supplement with both unless they are getting enough good-quality sun. If they have problems with oral magnesium then they need to find a solution to those problems. Try those suggestions, that's the best I've got.

                  edit: oh and if all else fails eat dirt. Are you isolated from microorganisms? It can make people vulnerable to auto-immunity.
                  Last edited by Stabby; 06-20-2011, 09:32 PM.
                  Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                  Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                    You say that you have problems but you have absolutely no deficiencies and you are doing everything right apparently You are worried about your kids. Go back to eating junk and step stressing so much about food? I mean you clearly had better health eating what you were before.
                    Huh? When did I say I didn't have any deficiencies? And what is wrong with worrying about my kids? That's why we're Paleo.

                    Perhaps I'm posting too quickly, or maybe my message is not being conveyed very eloquently...

                    Just trying to figure it out. That's all.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I get it, I'm sorry I just hate hearing people who seem very lost. Not as much as you hate being lost, I'm sure. Just to recap.

                      1. Possibly too much of some things or too little of some things, as I mentioned.
                      2. Possible gut issues.
                      3. Possibly stress, or possibly stress causing gut issues.
                      4. Your kids are fine. Grains aren't good for them but don't deprive them of macronutrients. Magnesium is good for kids, it makes them do better in school.

                      Hit me up with a PM in a few weeks of tinkering if you like
                      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have seen major improvements just removing Gluten. The problem is when I go low carb - I feel terrible. I basically eat Paleo but have added a couple cups of white rice each day, and feel amazing. I think this low-carb thing does not work long-term, so it should not be done short-term.

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                        • #13
                          I admit I don't know this person, but I did read his article, and find it interesting. Granted, I've been at this for less then a year, but going through his statements point by point and looking at myself, I've had pretty much the opposite results.

                          1> My skin is better than ever. Its soft, smooth, and I have no blemishes outside of the normal scratches, bug bites and so on. I have no itching anywhere, and my hair and scalp are better than they've been in over a decade.

                          2> Shortly after going Primal, my sinuses drained for days. I had no idea they were even that backed up. They've remained clear ever since. My allergies have been basically non-existent this Spring.

                          3> I only have gastric distress at this point, if I cheat and eat grains or sugars. Otherwise, everything ticks over better than I ever remember, including

                          4> Regular bowel movements, with easy to pass stools. Pre-primal, not so.

                          5> Lipomas - well, I'm dropping body fat at a pretty steady, healthy rate. Go me.

                          6> Muscle stiffness - as a Fibromyalgia sufferer, I can say my muscles haven't been so healthy in years. Morning stiffness is reduced, and overall muscle recovery has increased tremendously.

                          7> Anxiety attacks - no change. Had them pre-primal, have them occasionally now.

                          8> Chronic tension in shoulders and neck - huge improvement on these for me, my neck and shoulders have been a bad spot for lock up due to Fibro, and they stay reasonably stretched out for days, instead of hours, after working on loosening them. I go longer in between bad spells too.

                          So, good for him in finding something that works for him, but I've so far found the exact opposite to be true for me. Maybe after 14 years, I'll have a differing view, but for now I'll be sticking with Primal.
                          Fighting fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain since 2002.

                          Big Fat Fiasco

                          Our bodies crave real food. We remain hungry as long as we refuse to eat real food, no matter how much junk we stuff into our stomachs. ~J. Stanton

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                          • #14
                            I haven't read Don's article yet (I'll be popping over there next) but one thing I've noticed since discovering Mark's Primal Blueprint a few years ago - is that what Mark described then was basically grain-free omnivorism. Yeah, he ate high fat, but seemed to get a fair amount of it from olive oil and medium chain saturated sources like coconut oil along with (since he can afford it) good grass fed animal fat.

                            But he also ate a (near) daily big ass salad, and featured vegetables at pretty much every meal. And while his macronutrient numbers surely favor protein and fat over carbs, his plate probably looked pretty vegetable heavy.

                            Pan away from Mark and swing by this forum (and others like it) and you find a lot (not all, but a lot) of apparent fanatics tweaking things out with even more fat and protein as they see the weight slough off, joyfully touting what they've experienced like a band of happy carnivores.

                            It creates two vastly different images and (as one can see without hopping too many threads in any given direction) not a little angst and stress for those who aren't seeing the same results that others are singing about.

                            I don't know what bee got up in Don's bonnet, but while he seems to be having a more vehement reaction than some of the other big names in the paleosphere, he's not alone in altering his thinking about the current model of paleo eating. I see similar trends on Stephan's blog, and Kurt's, and Chris', - hell, even Richard's and I'm developing my own way of thinking that puts what I'll call *hard core* paleo (heavy on the animal/use the lettuce as a plate) firmly in the *fix my metabolism* sphere of influence, moderating out after that with a heavy emphasis on seasonal and regional eating where the emphasis is more on whole foods than macronutrients.

                            I also shy away from the one-size-fits-all mentality that can creep into any way of life. N=1 is my favorite aspect of everything I've discovered with Paleo eating/living. But it's also one of the things that is hardest for people to deal with, because we've been trained to take spoonfed answers and we are egotistical monkeys, and even if we recognize that just because it worked for me doesn't mean it will work for you on an intellectual level, somewhere in our lizard brain we kinda feel that *u-r-doing-it-rong* tug when we see someone reject what clearly worked for us.

                            *shrUg*

                            I hope Don has found something that works for him.

                            I hope we all do.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                              I haven't read Don's article yet (I'll be popping over there next) but one thing I've noticed since discovering Mark's Primal Blueprint a few years ago - is that what Mark described then was basically grain-free omnivorism. Yeah, he ate high fat, but seemed to get a fair amount of it from olive oil and medium chain saturated sources like coconut oil along with (since he can afford it) good grass fed animal fat.

                              But he also ate a (near) daily big ass salad, and featured vegetables at pretty much every meal. And while his macronutrient numbers surely favor protein and fat over carbs, his plate probably looked pretty vegetable heavy.

                              Pan away from Mark and swing by this forum (and others like it) and you find a lot (not all, but a lot) of apparent fanatics tweaking things out with even more fat and protein as they see the weight slough off, joyfully touting what they've experienced like a band of happy carnivores.

                              It creates two vastly different images and (as one can see without hopping too many threads in any given direction) not a little angst and stress for those who aren't seeing the same results that others are singing about.

                              I don't know what bee got up in Don's bonnet, but while he seems to be having a more vehement reaction than some of the other big names in the paleosphere, he's not alone in altering his thinking about the current model of paleo eating. I see similar trends on Stephan's blog, and Kurt's, and Chris', - hell, even Richard's and I'm developing my own way of thinking that puts what I'll call *hard core* paleo (heavy on the animal/use the lettuce as a plate) firmly in the *fix my metabolism* sphere of influence, moderating out after that with a heavy emphasis on seasonal and regional eating where the emphasis is more on whole foods than macronutrients.

                              I also shy away from the one-size-fits-all mentality that can creep into any way of life. N=1 is my favorite aspect of everything I've discovered with Paleo eating/living. But it's also one of the things that is hardest for people to deal with, because we've been trained to take spoonfed answers and we are egotistical monkeys, and even if we recognize that just because it worked for me doesn't mean it will work for you on an intellectual level, somewhere in our lizard brain we kinda feel that *u-r-doing-it-rong* tug when we see someone reject what clearly worked for us.

                              *shrUg*

                              I hope Don has found something that works for him.

                              I hope we all do.
                              +1, this is what I was thinking of saying, but in better words!

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