Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Kidney stones since going primal....ouch!

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Kidney stones since going primal....ouch!

    Hello all;

    Warning - TMI alert! I had posted about not feeling well the last few days. I think I may know why. Yesterday I started urinating lots of blood and had some pain in my back. Today the blood got worse and the pain got lots worse. I went to the ER and they said I had a kidney stone!

    I love primal eating and have had dramatic improvement in my arthritis eating this way. I keep reading though that I should be on a low protein/low sodium diet to prevent re-current. A few weeks ago i had lots of crystals in my urine and today there were tons of crystals, blood, and white blood cells. I don't eat low carb and doubt my protein intake is that high on primal, but probably higher than when I ate SAD.

    I have also read there is a small associate between Vit D supplementation and stones....but the data is not very convincing.

    Any experts on kidney stones around here? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I'm a little discouraged....all this effort to be healthy and I still keep hitting road blocks. It seems so effortless for so many people.....
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

  • #2
    The Boyfriend gets the calcium ones (the majority of stones) from oxalates. I know tea is on the list of things to avoid, but I can't remember all of the others, but I know there's even a list of oxalates on Wikipedia.
    Durp.

    Comment


    • #3
      From Wikipedia (which doesn't agree with The Boyfriend on the whole "tea" thing):

      Specific therapy should be tailored to the type of stones involved. Dietary intake can have a profound influence on the development of kidney stones. Preventive strategies may include dietary modifications and medication with the goal of reducing the excretory load on the kidneys.

      A key principle for the prevention of kidney stones is to increase urine volume. The relative probability of kidney stone formation decreases as urinary volume increases. Because of this, maintenance of dilute urine by means of vigorous fluid therapy is beneficial in all forms of nephrolithiasis. Fluid intake should be sufficient to maintain a urine output of 2 to 3 litres (68 to 100 US fl oz) per day. A high fluid intake has been associated with a 40% reduction in recurrence risk.

      Available data suggest that the type of fluid ingested is important. For example, orange juice may help prevent calcium oxalate stone formation, blackcurrant juice may help prevent uric acid stones, and cranberry juice may help with struvite stones. Lemons have the highest concentration of citrate of any citrus fruit, and daily consumption of lemonade has been shown to decrease the rate of stone formation. Beer appears to decrease the rate of stone formation, while grapefruit juice appears to increase the risk. One study indicated that intake of caffeinated beverages increases risk of kidney stones. While it may be advised to avoid caffeinated cola beverages because of their high phosphate content, this does not include coffee or tea. In fact, prospective cohort studies of coffee and tea actually indicate that they may prevent kidney stones. Though caffeine does acutely increase urinary calcium excretion, several independent epidemiologic studies have shown that coffee intake overall is protective against the formation of stones.

      Calcium binds with available oxalate in the gastrointestinal tract, thereby preventing its absorption into the bloodstream. A randomized controlled trial published in 2002 assigned men with hypercalciuria to follow either a diet containing a normal amount of calcium (30 mmol per day) but with restricted intake of animal protein and salt, or a low-calcium (10 mmol per day) diet. At 5 years, the group on the normal calcium, low animal protein and low salt diet had a 51% lower rate of stone recurrence than those following a low-calcium diet. Some nephrologists and urologists recommend chewing calcium tablets during meals containing oxalate foods. Calcium citrate supplements can be taken with meals if dietary calcium cannot be increased by other means. The preferred calcium supplement for people at risk of stone formation is calcium citrate because it helps to increase urinary citrate excretion.

      Aside from vigorous oral hydration and consumption of more dietary calcium, other prevention strategies include avoidance of large doses of supplental vitamin C and restriction of oxalate-rich foods such as leaf vegetables, rhubarb, soy products and chocolate. However, no randomized controlled trial of oxalate restriction has yet been performed to test the hypothesis that oxalate restriction reduces the incidence of stone formation. There is some evidence that magnesium intake decreases the risk of symptomatic nephrolithiasis
      Durp.

      Comment


      • #4
        RitaRose posted this link on another thread, written by Robb Wolf:
        Clearing up Kidney Confusion: Part Deux

        Comment


        • #5
          Don't you need to find out the type of stone so you can design treatment around that? Do you know what type of stone you have?

          Comment


          • #6
            Ketosis can give kidney stones (among numerous other problems). Grok wasn't in ketosis and neither is any other healthy population.

            Comment


            • #7
              Watch out for oxalates in veggies and greens! Especially spinach, beets, chard, and rhubarb. Chocolate is sky-high. Tea is high, but coffee is not. I've read about people getting kidney stones within two years of starting a big "health" push which involved having a big spinach salad every day.

              There's a very good group on Yahoo, "Trying Low Oxalates" Heartily recommended.

              Trying_Low_Oxalates : Trying Low Oxalates

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by mwok86 View Post
                Ketosis can give kidney stones (among numerous other problems). Grok wasn't in ketosis and neither is any other healthy population.
                No that's not correct.

                As per Robb Wolf on the link above:
                "The course of action involved a low protein (10-15% protein) low carb ( less than 10%) high fat (mainly from coconut products), ketogenic diet. Pete’s doctor was horrified, but we petitioned for one month of “tinkering” to see how things went. Three weeks later Pete’s GFR was 80% of normal instead of the previous 10% and his BUN was within normal ranges. His doctor was interested…but baffled. Pete has subsequently titrated up his protein intake with no ill effects on kidney function."

                Comment


                • #9
                  A ketone is acidic, the body's compensatory systems will fix the acid overload from ketosis short-term. Long term, it will be detrimental. Alkaline minerals from vegetables (important ones) sources will end up being used to neutralize the acid instead of other functions. It took the Inuits, 40 years of ketosis to develop osteoporosis and this is well documented. Eating protein yields net acid load because the protein source contains acidic minerals such as phosphates.

                  Rob says fructose causes kidney damage. Fructose is in fruits and since fruits were abundant during Grok's time (you can bet he ate everything), they must've had high kidney failure rate.

                  Grok did not have a problem with ph balance because he was eating tons of saturated fatty meats and fruits (high sugar) at the same time and burned it all off in a single days work.
                  Last edited by mwok86; 06-19-2011, 06:45 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Primal BluePrint isn't low carb to the extent that you usually end up in ketosis.
                    How do you know fruit was abundant during Grok's time?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sue View Post
                      Primal BluePrint isn't low carb to the extent that you usually end up in ketosis.
                      How do you know fruit was abundant during Grok's time?
                      In the paleolithic era, the soil was probably more rich in minerals and fertile. There were more Grok ate foods we don't even consume today. There was probably a lot more vegetation than today. Grok would never have experience famine because food was plenty. Because Grok is clueless about nutrition, they'd probably eat everything a fruit tree had when they came across one (and they came across it frequently due to the vegetation). Some of these fruits are very high in sugar (most are uncommon). Grok would also never be in ketosis 90% of the time.

                      Grok's high protein consumption from meat was balanced by his high consumption of fruits and vegetables. Grok never had diabetes because he was too busy climbing mountains/trees/hunting. This is the same thing we see in Okinawa vs Native Indians. When Native Indians when from the hunter gather lifestyle to reservation camps, they became obese and diabetic by consuming white flour, sugar, starches. However, Okinawa also consumes these yet they have lower rates of diabetes. The difference is physical activity and moderation.

                      From wikipedia....
                      Overall, Paleolithic peoples experienced less famine and malnutrition than the Neolithic farming tribes that followed them.[20][106] This was partly because Paleolithic hunter-gatherers had access to a wider variety of plants and other foods, which allowed them a more nutritious diet and a decreased risk of famine
                      Last edited by mwok86; 06-19-2011, 07:02 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kidney stones run in my family. I got them frequently, when I was a teenager. For me, it was unbearable pain. My stomach hurt badly, and I'd usually spend about a 24-hour period throwing up. I could feel the pain start very high in my abdomen and work its way down, although that may have been just a mental thing.

                        I suspected it was caused by prolonged dehydration. I worked in my Grandpa's machine shop 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, and it was hot.

                        I started drinking more water, and I've been fine since. If ever I feel like I have a pain high in my abdomen, I start chugging water.

                        I'm definitely not an expert, but you might consider looking at your water intake.

                        I'm not sure it's relevant, as you believe you are getting a generous amount of carbs, but I've been in mild ketosis for months, and I've had no issues.
                        Last edited by Meat; 06-19-2011, 08:54 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Meat View Post
                          Kidney stones run in my family. I got them frequently, when I was a teenager. For me, it was unbearable pain. My stomach hurt badly, and I'd usually spend about a 24-hour period throwing up. I could feel the pain start very high in my abdomen and work its way down, although that may have been just a mental thing.

                          I suspected it was caused by prolonged dehydration. I worked in my Grandpa's machine shop 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, and it was hot.

                          I started drinking more water, and I've been fine since. If ever I feel like I have a pain high in my abdomen, I start chugging water.

                          I'm definitely not an expert, but you might consider looking at your water intake.

                          I'm not sure it's relevant, as you believe you are getting a generous amount of carbs, but I've been in mild ketosis for months, and I've had no issues.
                          Thanks for the input. I had pretty bad nausea and quite a bit of pain....although I think not nearly as much as some people experience. The doctor asked if I felt the pain moving down my abdomen - so I don't think it was a mental thing in your case.

                          Water intake is definitely an issue for me. I gave up coffee recently and that has probably made it even worse. I need to make it a priority. I just don't have a drive to drink water, I almost need to set a timer or something.....

                          I do eat lots of carbs, but was surprised to find out I was in ketosis during a urinalysis a month ago. None the less, I suspect I am rarely in ketosis.
                          Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                          http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sue View Post
                            Don't you need to find out the type of stone so you can design treatment around that? Do you know what type of stone you have?
                            I don't know yet - you are right, I can't really make changes until I know for sure. I have had lots of oxalate crystals in my urine recently, so it may be those. Thanks!!
                            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by piano-doctor-lady View Post
                              Watch out for oxalates in veggies and greens! Especially spinach, beets, chard, and rhubarb. Chocolate is sky-high. Tea is high, but coffee is not. I've read about people getting kidney stones within two years of starting a big "health" push which involved having a big spinach salad every day.

                              There's a very good group on Yahoo, "Trying Low Oxalates" Heartily recommended.

                              Trying_Low_Oxalates : Trying Low Oxalates
                              Why- o- why do you hate me

                              So, it's not the meat that got me.....its the obscene quantity of dark chocolate I eat every day?!?!

                              Say it ain't so.....say it ain't so.
                              Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                              http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X