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troubled vegetarian..please help..

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  • #31
    1



    DMM, how does "the sheer volume of animals" equate into some moral parameter? There are more people nowadays, too.


    We do kill our pets. We put them to sleep, ya know? Not unlike stunning the cattle?


    To throw in the disdain about making a profit give insight as to the lack of ration taking place. That's evil? Do you have job? Thank profit, even if you work for the government.


    Why is an animal of higher life form than the vegetables we eat? Because they are closer to us, biologically? Maybe that tomato is screaming as it gets sliced. We don't know, but it is just as much a living thing as the cow is.


    Animals are here. That's all. They aren't anything "more" than their existence, which might include being food. Neither are we.

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    • #32
      1



      thank you guys for talking about the ethical treatment of animals...and OnTheBayou..maybe you're right about the tamato...but you have to admit, most of the animals we eat, thanks to corporations, are in a constant state of suffering...

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      • #33
        1



        A great website to peruse is Temple Grandin's website on humane treatment for livestock. A bit dry as it is technical scholarly information, not entertainment in the least. But spend a cup of coffee or two having a look around:


        http://www.grandin.com/

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        • #34
          1



          "most of the animals we eat, thanks to corporations, are in a constant state of suffering..."


          PETA brings that to our attention but it should be so that changes can be made not to make everyone vegetarians.


          If you live on a farm or in a village you don't grow up with this fantasy that animals are all lovely little talking creatures like bambi.

          You grow your own vegetables, keep a cow for milk and cheese, keep a pig, a sheep etc - feed it and then slaughter it when the time comes. Its a normal part of life in a village where my parents came from.

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          • #35
            1



            I think PETA gets that now. Of course they'd like us all to be vegetarians, but if you check out their website and their YouTube channel, your initial impressions will probably have more to do with fur, lab animals, and mistreated pets than going veggie.

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            • #36
              1



              Just wanted to chime in that you seem to be having difficulty with all that cellulose & fiber in veggies...I'd skip fruits entirely for awhile because of the sugars. Add fat to your diet - it'll help with constipation. Gelatin is also soothing to the GI tract. Do not cook with canola oil! Go to westonaprice.org & read the 'great con-ola' article.

              I'd suggest bacon & eggs, with added butter in the pan - or an omelete - add cream & avocado when whisking. Lunch, maybe a chicken drumstick/thigh, eat the skin! with perhaps a small well baked sweet potato with lots of butter, then dinner a small rare steak (with bernaise if you're up for it) and cream of broccoli soup....just an idea menu to get fat up, protein up and carbs relatively low. I had the problems you are suffering when I was a vegetarian - the less veggies/fruit the better...and veggies need to be well-cooked & with good fats to go down well. I think dairy shouldn't be a problem if you stick to butter & cream...maybe a little cheese but, I'd try skipping it at first...see how you feel. I'd stay away from raw veggies for a good long while... Hope this helps!

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              • #37
                1



                OTB, I have to assume that you have not ever bothered to watch any footage of CAFO or slaughter house operations. The point I'm making is that animals should be raised in a healthy environment and be put down in a humane way. The way it is supposed to happen is not quite how it goes down and that is due to sheer laziness and greed. We are obviously producing tons of meat to send thru all these fast food establishments and offer yards and yards of meats in the grocery store. Commit to pastured meat and eat less if need be. We vote with our dollars/ choices but possibly you just don't give a shit.


                And yes, I'm self employed. I very well understand the forces of greed and laziness. At the end of the day, the way one operates pretty well displays one's soul. I see it over and over again and usually in one way or another, people get their karmic returns. A little consciousness goes a long way.


                I really appreciate all of those that have supported the humane treatment of animals and responsible choices on this thread. I had a good conversation about it with a friend today and we concluded that if more people really understood how their food came to be and what they are ingesting, they would opt to spend a bit more.

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                • #38
                  1



                  DMM, I have watched some of the videos.


                  Please tell me HOW the slaughtering process may be improved. You just keep saying it's bad.


                  If one eats, one kills, one impacts the earth. You can't excape it. Even fishing causes pain.


                  I think most would agree that obsession with profits and money is unhealthy at many levels, and certainly spiritual. But I'm still at a loss how slaughtering for profit makes Swift & Co. less pure than whatever it is that you are envisioning.

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                  • #39
                    1



                    Something interesting to note about PETA (though I'm loathe to actually say anything nice about them) is that they will work with animal slaughter facilities to make sure it is humane for the animals.


                    We have a huge turkey plant in my area and when they were building they worked closely with PETA so that the slaughter process was as humane as possible.


                    The companies do have a vested interest in making the animals as calm as possible during slaughter as fear (and the chemicals fear releases into the system) will negatively effect the flavor of the meat.


                    And even though I've never really understood the depth of the compassion moral vegetarians feel for animals (I just don't get it) I don't want my dinner to suffer unnecessarily before meeting my plate; in life or in slaughter. So I'm glad for the companies that do approach this process humanely.


                    Now if only it were more cost effective to live on humanely raised/slaughter meat.

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                    • #40
                      1



                      musajen, I wasn't aware of that, about PETA.


                      I am ALL for keeping our food animals healthy and content and blissfully unaware of their fates. It's just right thing to do even if we can't find a moral imperative as to why this might be.


                      I'm going to guess that the bovine species would not exist if not for the symbiotic relationship with man.


                      Maybe just a variant of The Golden Rule?

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                      • #41
                        1



                        It's in the interest of the farmer to kill the animal swiftly because of what musajen said before.


                        Coming up with a cost-effective way of improvement of living conditions is more complicated due to the huge price difference between grain an grass fed. But that might change due to the advantage of local production due to their smaller environmental footprint.


                        In theory, as companies are held more accountable for their environmental and social performance (CAFO facilities have very big impacts), there could be a significant incentive to go more local and thus greener. Removing the subsidies for corn and other cereals would help enormously as well.

                        “Every saint has a past and every sinner has a future.” -Oscar Wilde
                        "The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." -George Bernard Shaw
                        "The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." -Martin Mull

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