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  • Originally posted by colleencoble View Post
    This is exactly what I did to fix mine 15 years ago. I had to go as high as 150 mcg of T3 (Cytomel) but I titered up slowly. I tried timed released for a while but I actually felt better breaking up my doses myself and taking it that way.
    Maybe that is why my doc recommended that I increase my cytomel and not the armour recently?

    FT4 1.1 RANGE: .8-1.8 ng/dL
    FT3 3.5 RANGE: 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
    ]Antibodies: >1000 RANGE: lesss than 35
    Reverse T3 24 RANGE: 11-32
    T3 119 RANGE: 76-181

    I dont know what my "ratio" is but since it looked my FT4 was lower and my FT3 was about the same, I assumed he'd give me a bit more armour (T4 and T3) and raised my eyes at bit at the cytomel suggestion. Wonder if it would be better for me to be on Cytomel only...?

    Comment


    • Got my labs back from Chris and ....NO HORMONES. I think lab corp messed up bc i remember seeing them on the order form....so frustrating. i believe their office is closed throughout the holidays so if there is a mistake it wont be fixed until i get back...darn it....i really wanted to check out my progesterone in relation to estrogen, testosterone etc. I'm wondering if I need to supplement progesterone

      on a side note - does anyone know what causes thyroid face? (Edema, unnatural weight on the face). is it simply that i dont have my thryoid hormones right (and therefore need to increase most likely as i'm not on optimal dose) or is it something else (other hormones etc). Just curious. I'd love to look like me again

      Comment


      • thinking about just getting the darn tests myself since i cant see the doctor until almost the end of january! whats more accurate for hormone testing? blood or saliva? and then i assume it should agin be days 2-4 of my cycle?

        Comment


        • Originally posted by nuttmegs17 View Post
          on a side note - does anyone know what causes thyroid face? (Edema, unnatural weight on the face). is it simply that i dont have my thryoid hormones right (and therefore need to increase most likely as i'm not on optimal dose) or is it something else (other hormones etc). Just curious. I'd love to look like me again
          Perhaps this site will help you. Thyroid Puffy Face - a comprehensive view - Wellsphere A good source of selenium is Brazil Nuts...It only takes 3-4 a week to get enough selenium.
          Google "thyroid face" "puffy thyroid" There is a lot of info out there.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by DigitalSurgeon View Post
            Reverse T3 Pearls.........

            It is well known that thyroid hormones regulate metabolism and that low thyroid hormone production (hypothyroidism) causes low metabolism, but it has only recently been understood that thyroid production can be fine but there can a problem of activation of the hormones inside the cells that can be a major cause of low metabolism.

            The thyroid gland secretes an inactive thyroid hormone called thyroxine, also known as T4. This is regulated by thyroid stimulation hormone (TSH) produced by the brain (specifically the pituitary). Normally, the inactive T4 is converted inside the cell to the active thyroid hormone called triiodothyronine (also known as T3). Most doctors will check TSH and T4 levels to see if thyroid levels are normal.

            The studies are showing that it is not the production of thyroid that is the problem, but rather it is problem inside the cell that the inactive T4 is not converted to T3 but rather to a mirror image of T3 called reverse T3. The reverse T3 has the opposite effect of T3, blocking the effects of T3 and lowering rather than increasing metabolism.

            It is an evolutionary fall-back that was useful in times of famine or in hibernating animals to lower metabolism. Studies are showing that stress and dieting (especially yo-yo dieting) can set this hormone into action as well as chronic illness such as diabetes, chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia.

            The production of reverse T3 is found to be a major method by which the body 'tries" to regain any lost weight with dieting. As soon as the body senses a reduction in calories, the production of reverse T3 is stimulated to lower metabolism. With chronic dieting or stress, the body often stays in this "starvation mode" with elevated levels of reverse T3 and decreased levels of T3, which is a major reason for the regaining of lost weight with dieting as well being the mechanism behind stress induced weight gain (it is not due to increased cortisol).

            Testing: There has been a long held belief by endocrinologists and other physicians that adequate thyroid levels can be determined by testing the TSH and T4 levels. Studies are showing that such standard testing will miss 80% of thyroid dysfunction so most endocrinologists and other doctors will tell their patients that their thyroid is fine based on this usual testing. The doctors must run a free T3/reverse T3 ratio. Generally, a healthy person will have a ratio greater than 2 so a person with a ratio less than 2 should also be considered a candidate for thyroid supplementation. Many endocrinologist and physicians are not yet aware of the significance or ability to run this ratio so it may take some searching.

            Treatment Considerations: The standard treatment of hypothyroidism involves the supplementation with T4, including Synthroid and Levoxyl. These are not effective to remedy such a situation because the problem is not the amount of T4 but rather the excess conversion of T4 to reverse T3, blocking effects of the active T3. One must bypass the abnormality by supplementing with physiologic doses of T3, not T4 (preferably timed released T3). It is not appropriate to give thyroid hormone for weight loss, but rather to correct an abnormality diagnosed by appropriate blood tests.
            Thanks Dr K. The more I read, the more i think this is part of my problem... I think I may have found a doc who might be able to help me here in DC. I'm hoping to get an appointment some time in Jan/Feb - and hope you're Optimize Life consultation svs are up and running before i go in so I can make sure we're on the right track. of course key will be my January Labs... & I've found a way to pay for them via my insurance - my Chiro/NP will write a lab corp chit w/every test I want on it... whoot!
            The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose. ~ Ayn Rand
            What's your purpose? Mine is Optimal Health.

            Converted to PB November 2010
            SW 190lb
            Leptin Reset Redux (1Sep 2011) SW 170lbs
            25 Sep 2011 160lbs
            1 Dec 2011 158lbs!
            GW ~135lbs
            5'3"
            Mother of 2, and wife to a kick ass husband...trying to contain chaos and havoc on a daily basis

            My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread40609.html

            Comment


            • Heh Heidi...
              'she said there hasn't been any conclusive evidence'
              -- we all know what that is code word for LOL

              If my doc told me her Vit D level was 6 and she didn't care, I would be finding a new doc.
              started weight loss journey 6/1/10 -182 lbs total loss
              Leptin Reset/Primal (started 9/3/11 wt 226 ) -- week 14 -10 lbs loss thus far

              Avocados are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Heidi View Post
                My doctor wouldn't run the test, saying that low vitamin d levels are common in the northern states and that hers is 6 and she isn't worried at all about it. When I mentioned the studies linking low levels to certain cancers, etc. she said there hasn't been any conclusive evidence and if I was really concerned, to take 400 IU of vitamin d a day (imagine if I had told her I was taking 5000 a day).
                It's sad that someone that stupid is in a position of authority over others' health. Get thee to another doctor. That one's dangerous. What else is she overlooking?

                Originally posted by nuttmegs17 View Post

                FT4 1.1 RANGE: .8-1.8 ng/dL
                FT3 3.5 RANGE: 2.3-4.2 pg/mL
                ]Antibodies: >1000 RANGE: lesss than 35
                Reverse T3 24 RANGE: 11-32
                T3 119 RANGE: 76-181

                I dont know what my "ratio" is but since it looked my FT4 was lower and my FT3 was about the same, I assumed he'd give me a bit more armour (T4 and T3) and raised my eyes at bit at the cytomel suggestion. Wonder if it would be better for me to be on Cytomel only...?
                The ratio calculator at STTM: rt3-ratio | Stop The Thyroid Madness

                Comment


                • The thyroid bit was enlightening; thanks Doc! Is that your writing? It doesn't sound like you!

                  Ate breakfast under a crisp 45 blue sky this morning, barefoot with jeans and a sweater. Got cold towards the end, but not till bkfst was done. Yay for morning sunshine on bare eyes!

                  I've been working the last two weeks on not just getting my bkfst w/i 30m of waking, but getting my waking time consistent. It's been steady around 8am; next I plan to move it back toward 7:30, then 7, then 6:30 eventually. Sunrise, here I come!
                  5'4" 39yo mother to five sweeties & married to their AMAZING DaddyGrok
                  Current Weight: 175lb__________________________________Goal: 135lb
                  Deadlift: 240lb________________________________________Back Squat: 165lb
                  Bench: 130lb__________________________________________Pre ss: 85lb
                  ***Winning a 20-year war against binge eating disorder***

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Owl View Post
                    It's sad that someone that stupid is in a position of authority over others' health. Get thee to another doctor. That one's dangerous. What else is she overlooking?




                    The ratio calculator at STTM: rt3-ratio | Stop The Thyroid Madness
                    Yikes! I'm .1 ! (rT3 is ng/dl) thats not good eh? How do i right this? Should I take my docs advice and increase cytomel (although we are still waiting on cortisol tests before tinkering). i could have sworn my doc mentioned something about a 12 being my ratio so wondering how he got to that? think he said he likes to see it more in the 20s again not sure how he figured that if the calculator told me i .01...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Owl View Post
                      It's sad that someone that stupid is in a position of authority over others' health. Get thee to another doctor. That one's dangerous. What else is she overlooking?
                      it is sad. I learned the hard way after a full year of feeling awful and being told i was fine that its best to review the labs your docs are running and learn to analyze them. i misplaced trust way to long. Once I got my hands on the years worth of tests, i realized 1. she was running the wrong thyroid tests (she only looked at TSH) and 2. i needed to fire her because i was borderline anemic and my D3 was in the tank, yet she said nothing (really? not even recommending an iron supplement? how hard is that?)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Sooner Girl View Post
                        Just received my results from the ZRT testing .. help please!

                        Estradiol 24 H range .8-12
                        Progesterone 1013 range 200-3000
                        Ratio Pg/E2 42 L range Optimal: 100-500
                        Testosterone 37 range 16-55
                        DHEAS 3.7 range 2-23

                        FT4 0.9 range 0.7-2.5
                        FT3 0.4 range 2.5-6.5 YIKES!
                        TSH 1.4 range 0.5-3.0
                        TPO 17 range 0-150

                        Cortisol am 4.8 range 3.7-9.5
                        Cortisol noon 2.4 range 1.2-3.0
                        Cortisol eve 0.5 range 0.6-1.9
                        Cortisol night 1.2 range 0.4-1.0

                        Vit D, D2 <4.0 range <4 if not supplementing
                        Vit D, D3 120 range 32-100
                        Vit D, Total 120 range 32-100
                        While we're discussing thyroid... I'd love to be an exhibit in the discussion! Obviously I need some help here

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Sooner Girl View Post
                          While we're discussing thyroid... I'd love to be an exhibit in the discussion! Obviously I need some help here
                          I've NEVER seen a free T3 that low - makes me wonder if there was an error as the other numbers look good. DHEA looks low, and cortisol is backwards (low in morning and high at night) which should improve following Dr Kruse's recommendations on the adrenal blog.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DigitalSurgeon View Post
                            Reverse T3 Pearls.........

                            It is well known that thyroid hormones regulate metabolism and that low thyroid hormone production (hypothyroidism) causes low metabolism, but it has only recently been understood that thyroid production can be fine but there can a problem of activation of the hormones inside the cells that can be a major cause of low metabolism.

                            The thyroid gland secretes an inactive thyroid hormone called thyroxine, also known as T4. This is regulated by thyroid stimulation hormone (TSH) produced by the brain (specifically the pituitary). Normally, the inactive T4 is converted inside the cell to the active thyroid hormone called triiodothyronine (also known as T3). Most doctors will check TSH and T4 levels to see if thyroid levels are normal.

                            The studies are showing that it is not the production of thyroid that is the problem, but rather it is problem inside the cell that the inactive T4 is not converted to T3 but rather to a mirror image of T3 called reverse T3. The reverse T3 has the opposite effect of T3, blocking the effects of T3 and lowering rather than increasing metabolism.

                            It is an evolutionary fall-back that was useful in times of famine or in hibernating animals to lower metabolism. Studies are showing that stress and dieting (especially yo-yo dieting) can set this hormone into action as well as chronic illness such as diabetes, chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia.

                            The production of reverse T3 is found to be a major method by which the body 'tries" to regain any lost weight with dieting. As soon as the body senses a reduction in calories, the production of reverse T3 is stimulated to lower metabolism. With chronic dieting or stress, the body often stays in this "starvation mode" with elevated levels of reverse T3 and decreased levels of T3, which is a major reason for the regaining of lost weight with dieting as well being the mechanism behind stress induced weight gain (it is not due to increased cortisol).

                            Testing: There has been a long held belief by endocrinologists and other physicians that adequate thyroid levels can be determined by testing the TSH and T4 levels. Studies are showing that such standard testing will miss 80% of thyroid dysfunction so most endocrinologists and other doctors will tell their patients that their thyroid is fine based on this usual testing. The doctors must run a free T3/reverse T3 ratio. Generally, a healthy person will have a ratio greater than 2 so a person with a ratio less than 2 should also be considered a candidate for thyroid supplementation. Many endocrinologist and physicians are not yet aware of the significance or ability to run this ratio so it may take some searching.

                            Treatment Considerations: The standard treatment of hypothyroidism involves the supplementation with T4, including Synthroid and Levoxyl. These are not effective to remedy such a situation because the problem is not the amount of T4 but rather the excess conversion of T4 to reverse T3, blocking effects of the active T3. One must bypass the abnormality by supplementing with physiologic doses of T3, not T4 (preferably timed released T3). It is not appropriate to give thyroid hormone for weight loss, but rather to correct an abnormality diagnosed by appropriate blood tests.
                            dr K
                            How important is
                            freeCortisol level status
                            and
                            24hr urine cortisol status,
                            when considering T3 supplementation?


                            .......

                            Do you have any comments on quelsen's attempts to influence D2 behavior?
                            Or possibly there are already known ways to do so?

                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post659124
                            post #12681

                            .....
                            http://deiodination.org/
                            Ubiquin conjugation to D2 is catalyzed by UBC6 or UBC7 in yeast and mammalian cells. This inactivates D2 and targets the protein for degradation in the proteasomes. However, inactive ubiquitinated D2 can be reactivated by the USP33 and USP20 deubiquitinating enzymes and rescued from terminal proteasomal degradation.
                            Last edited by JanSz; 12-23-2011, 11:10 AM.
                            Leptin For Dummies http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post595567

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by colleencoble View Post
                              This is exactly what I did to fix mine 15 years ago. I had to go as high as 150 mcg of T3 (Cytomel) but I titered up slowly. I tried timed released for a while but I actually felt better breaking up my doses myself and taking it that way.
                              When you were doing it (the 150mcg-T3)
                              have you given any consideration to your
                              FreeCortisol status
                              and
                              total 24hr (urine) cortisol output?

                              Have you brought your RT3=zero
                              or low single digits?

                              How long it took, weeks, months
                              to suppress your RT3?

                              How long, months, years have you stay on this very high T3 dose

                              What had to occur for you to go off the T3=150mcg dose

                              You said that above fixed your thyroid gland, what does that mean?

                              What thyroid supplementation are you using now?

                              IIRC, you are missing thyroid gland (or are rather severely hypothyroid), Y/N?


                              ....
                              Last edited by JanSz; 12-23-2011, 09:56 AM.
                              Leptin For Dummies http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post595567

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by nuttmegs17 View Post
                                Got my labs back from Chris and ....NO HORMONES. I think lab corp messed up bc i remember seeing them on the order form....so frustrating. i believe their office is closed throughout the holidays so if there is a mistake it wont be fixed until i get back...darn it....i really wanted to check out my progesterone in relation to estrogen, testosterone etc. I'm wondering if I need to supplement progesterone

                                on a side note - does anyone know what causes thyroid face? (Edema, unnatural weight on the face). is it simply that i dont have my thryoid hormones right (and therefore need to increase most likely as i'm not on optimal dose) or is it something else (other hormones etc). Just curious. I'd love to look like me again
                                Do not tell me that.

                                What is going on.

                                That was exactly my reason why I fired Quest Diagnostics.
                                And it was more like 3x in the row.


                                Yesterday, I go my report from LabCorp
                                3 (out of 22) items are missing.



                                ..
                                Leptin For Dummies http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post595567

                                Comment

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