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Leptin Reset Experiment starts today - Jack Kruse style

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  • Originally posted by otzi View Post
    Is this a bad thing?
    I dunno. I'm trying to figure that out but haven't found any conclusive studies that indicate it is a bad thing. The only reason so far that I've found that it *might* be a bad thing is that cortisol rhythms don't change with meals patterns. In a healthy person who eats breakfast, cortisol peaks at 6am and hits its lowest at 12am. So....

    In a breakfast eater, cortisol peaks at 6am and leptin peaks 12am - 6 hrs earlier.
    In a breakfast eater, cortisol hits its' lowest at 12am and leptin hits it's lowest 9hrs later at 9am.

    In an IF'er, cortisol is still hitting it's peak at 6am and leptin is hitting it's peak at 5am - 1 hr BEFORE cortisol hits it's peak.
    In an IF'er, cortisol still hits it's lowest at 12am, and leptin hits it's lowest at 4pm, 7 hours BEFORE cortisol hits it's lowest.

    I haven't been able to find anything that indicates that leptin hitting it's peak and lowest points before cortisol is a bad thing, and I don't know enough about cortisol and leptin to draw my own conclusions about why this would be bad.
    Last edited by NDF; 07-09-2011, 10:46 AM.

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    • Originally posted by otzi View Post
      If Leptins are lowest in the morning, and highest in the evening, shouldn't logic dictate you'd be ravenisly hungry in the morning and 'full' at night? Ever since I started IF'ing from 6pm til 12pm, I am not the least bit hungry until around 1130am, even then I could probably go until 1 or 2pm before getting that starved feeling.
      Here's a better explanation, there ae many things that work together, leptin working properly keeps it working well:

      The hypothalamus gland in the brain is the subconscious command and control center for the entire body. It is the part of the brain that senses the amount of leptin on hand. When it senses the correct amount of leptin, it means there is plenty of fuel in storage, so it turns off appetite and enables a faster metabolism. If there is truly a lack of food or if there is leptin resistance, then the hypothalamus will keep hunger signals elevated in an effort to motivate the person to gather more food. Neuropeptide Y (NPY) is the key hunger signal in the brain. This signal must be turned off for an individual to feel satisfied from food. If this signal stays elevated, then eating continues (figure 10). Leptin and NPY are opposites. As leptin levels rise inside the brain, NPY levels fall. Unfortunately, when there is leptin resistance, leptin does not enter the brain at the proper rate. NPY levels stay high, causing individuals to eat more than they need before the brain gets the message that they are full. Diabetics and obese individuals have the highest elevations of inappropriate NPY.238 DOPAMINE AND NEUROPEPTIDE
      Richards, Byron J. (2009). Mastering Leptin: Your Guide to Permanent Weight Loss and Optimum Health (Kindle Locations 2953-2964). Wellness Resources Books. Kindle Edition.
      This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

      Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
      Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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      • I've gotta break down and buy that book.

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        • Does anyone know what eating patterns in modern HG tribes is like? I'm very curious when and how frequently they would eat.
          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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          • Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
            I've gotta break down and buy that book.
            It's a good book. The only thing I found annoying was how he discusses a ton of supplements but doesn't give a clear outline of how to decide what you need to take, info on dosages and so on.
            Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

            Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

            Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

            "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
            Harold Whitman

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            • Update:

              I've been doing this now for about 3 weeks I think. I'm down only 2 pounds. Three pounds came off the first week and since then I have been gaining it back slowly. I'm 5' 7" and 133 pounds and have been carefully tracking foods, getting 1350 cals daily. I'm still hoping that when the leptin gets sorted out the weight will come off easier, yet so far I'm still in the boat of not being able to lose and eating even slightly more results in gain. Before starting this I was eating around 1800 and doing IF and getting about the same results. My carbs have been 50-100g daily which might be a problem for fat loss, except I used to be lower carb and it made me gain more and feel worse, so I do feel better at this level.

              I'm still getting over tough seasonal allergies, so it is hard to assess for sure, but my energy has gone down and sleep is much worse. All that could be the allergies though. Cravings are the same as before, I didn't have them while IFing either, although I did snack a lot throughout my eating window then.

              I'm not quitting, the science has me sold, but I am frustrated at the lack of fat loss. It is so frustrating to only be trying to lose a little and yet it feels like it is as hard as climbing Everest!
              PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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              • If you are truly leptin resistant, doesn't it make sense to not lose, gain or lose slowly when starting this protocol?

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                • Originally posted by NDF View Post
                  If you are truly leptin resistant, doesn't it make sense to not lose, gain or lose slowly when starting this protocol?
                  I don't know. Maybe Dr. Kruse will speak of what he sees in patients. It does seem like it would make sense to not lose until reset was complete and leptin sensitivity restored. I'm quite certain I'm LR too. I have never been overweight but I have done many extreme diets for the last 20 years both in food choices and massive calorie restriction (like 600 calories and fat-free vegan, OMG!). The part about our cells not being able to use energy really perked me up a lot, because I think that really sounds like me and intuitively feels like the answer I'm seeking.
                  PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                  http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                  • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                    Update:

                    I've been doing this now for about 3 weeks I think. I'm down only 2 pounds. Three pounds came off the first week and since then I have been gaining it back slowly. I'm 5' 7" and 133 pounds and have been carefully tracking foods, getting 1350 cals daily. I'm still hoping that when the leptin gets sorted out the weight will come off easier, yet so far I'm still in the boat of not being able to lose and eating even slightly more results in gain. Before starting this I was eating around 1800 and doing IF and getting about the same results. My carbs have been 50-100g daily which might be a problem for fat loss, except I used to be lower carb and it made me gain more and feel worse, so I do feel better at this level.

                    I'm still getting over tough seasonal allergies, so it is hard to assess for sure, but my energy has gone down and sleep is much worse. All that could be the allergies though. Cravings are the same as before, I didn't have them while IFing either, although I did snack a lot throughout my eating window then.

                    I'm not quitting, the science has me sold, but I am frustrated at the lack of fat loss. It is so frustrating to only be trying to lose a little and yet it feels like it is as hard as climbing Everest!
                    at 5'7" 133 are you sure you are even leptin resistant? you are not what i think anyone would consider overweight
                    Primal Chaos
                    37yo 6'5"
                    6-19-2011 393lbs 60" waist
                    current 338lbs 49" waist
                    goal 240lbs 35" waist

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                    • PaleoMom - I hope Dr K sees your post and offers some advice for you . I have a couple of observations if you don't mind? 1350 seems low to me (my breakfast alone on the reset is about 800 cals) - I'm the same height as you and lose on around 2100 cals but those cals are protein and fat with approx 30 carbs (I use net so probably around 50) - having said that, I'm overweight by about 20lbs so maybe I can get away with more and maybe I'll have to drop them at some point? When you did low-carb, how long did you do it for, did you do it for long enough to get through 'the flu'?

                      Having said all this, this is only my second day - no weight loss but inch loss on my belly (1.5").

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                      • Originally posted by NDF View Post
                        If you are truly leptin resistant, doesn't it make sense to not lose, gain or lose slowly when starting this protocol?
                        JK does say not to worry too much about calories, but focus on low carb.
                        WWW.SUGARAHOLICS.COM

                        I was a sugarbaby; meaning since I was born I was given lots of sugar, and ate lots of processed foods, especially sweets until I was into my thirties. Most people in the west were/are sugarbabies.

                        “How does today’s youngster educate his sense of taste? By submerging it in a sea of sugar from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed.” W. Root and Richard DeRochemont, Eating in America (1976)

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                        • Originally posted by Mike Gager View Post
                          at 5'7" 133 are you sure you are even leptin resistant? you are not what i think anyone would consider overweight
                          I don't consider myself very overweight either, but I do have some stomach and love handle pudge and a bit too much cover on the thighs. I'm only looking to lose about 5 pounds, however I've been trying to do that since high school and it still isn't happening.
                          PaleoMom's Diet Recovery Journal
                          http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82059.html

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                          • Sugarbaby - keep telling me that every day please

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                            • Originally posted by PaleoMom View Post
                              I don't consider myself very overweight either, but I do have some stomach and love handle pudge and a bit too much cover on the thighs. I'm only looking to lose about 5 pounds, however I've been trying to do that since high school and it still isn't happening.
                              You've been trying to lose 5lbs since high school? Seriously, do you never just think you'd like to get on with your life and not worry about it? Not meaning to offend, I used to obsess over every pound myself. Getting sick and gaining 130lbs in 3 yrs cured me of that.

                              If the reset isn't working for you surely that's because you're not leptin resistant or overweight, I don't think it's purpose is to force your body to an unnaturally low weight.
                              Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                              Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                              Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                              "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                              Harold Whitman

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                              • Originally posted by MollyMoo View Post
                                Sugarbaby - keep telling me that every day please
                                Remember this is just during the 6-8 weeks of leptin reset. I'm losing slowly even not being too focused on calories, but I was getting sloppy with the carbs so the next four weeks I'm going to be very careful to stay under 25g. The carb-creep upward is insidious!
                                WWW.SUGARAHOLICS.COM

                                I was a sugarbaby; meaning since I was born I was given lots of sugar, and ate lots of processed foods, especially sweets until I was into my thirties. Most people in the west were/are sugarbabies.

                                “How does today’s youngster educate his sense of taste? By submerging it in a sea of sugar from the time he gets up to the time he goes to bed.” W. Root and Richard DeRochemont, Eating in America (1976)

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