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Leptin Reset Experiment starts today - Jack Kruse style

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  • Hi Dr. K - will the 23andme test tell if a person is a sub methylator ?

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    • Originally posted by DrMommyN View Post
      Thanks for response, natural girl. I take milk thistle. Several others suggested a liver cleanse to me before. I'd love to know Dr Kruse's thoughts on "cleanses". Isn't the leptin rx a cleanse in itself? Liver = Gut. Would I really want to use a bunch of high 06 oil (olive oil) after avoiding this long? (Just did my 06/03 ratio test - waiting results.)
      You can do the liver cleanse with coconut oil. Just google for instructions.

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      • Originally posted by DigitalSurgeon View Post
        Estrogen and testosterone levels determine where on the body this fat goes and stays!) This is the real reason why andropause and menopause cause weight gain in specific parts of your body as you age. Your sex steroid status varies with the amount of inflammation present at the cellular level. Understand that the inflammatory chemicals from the fat are what cause this to happen over time.
        This statement by Dr K made me sit up and take notice!

        Here I am, a 68.5 year old male weighing 165 pounds on a 6'2" frame with a body fat of about 12% by my Omron home BF machine. And I have had for lots of years a beer, wheat, pregnant belly that absolutely refuses to retreat despite a rigorous ketogenic diet. Granted the size of the belly has retreated over the last 4 years but is still very noticeable.

        i was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea and now sleep with a CPAP but my bi-phasic sleep pattern has not abated after 6 weeks. With the CPAP, I am not quite as tired as compared to pre CPAP. But not optimal by any stretch.

        My last hsCRP was reported by Quest at less than .5 and my testosterone level 442ng/ml and my RT3=49ng/ml and T3=55.

        At my last visit to the PCP, I boached the subject of injectible testosterone cyproniate and he said not necessary for someone almost 69 years old. He sees most of the elderly (I am not elderly...I am mature) with testosterone levels down at 150s. It is just normal.

        Since my PCP will not prescribe any testosterone and in looking around the net, there are sites that sell testosterone cyprionate mostly for body building. These are anabolic steroids that body builders use in cycles. There are dire warnings that if you are self administering use extreme caution as the side effects can be less than optimal...to include man boobs. There is also the warnings regarding counterfeit product and warnings about infections from contamination of needles.

        I always thought I could eat a strict ketogenic diet and exercise and my wheat belly would abate. But it appears how I express my genes and hormones is not going to allow me to give up my belly.

        I am hopeful that the cold thermogenesis routine I am doing...packing bags of ice on my belly and sitting in cold water for a hour a night is going to rewire my brain and perhaps how I express my genes....going back to my primordial roots.

        So now with Dr Kruse saying about andropause and where I store my fat really has me thinking as to what direction I should take.

        I do have patience to rid my body of my belly but now my patience is running short.

        With all that said, I do not feel bad. I play senior softball 3-4 times per week, my mental attitude is fine, I do have some stress due to some financial things that are not going well right now during this damn recession. I am doing some crossfit and feel pretty well doing the WODs with my own weights and time. I am not pushing my body beyond my comfort level but enough to tax my body. The owners of the crossfit box have said I am doing better than they thought I would when I showed up at their door.

        I feel well all the time but I know that I can feel amazingly well and it is close, I know.

        I feel let down by the medical profession. It seems that if I am not on the verge of death, the medical profession I have dealt with seem to be happy.

        Frustrated but not stressed...I am.
        Last edited by Dextery; 02-18-2012, 11:02 AM.

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        • Dr. K, I'm wondering exactly what the 23and me test will do. I have a good idea where my maternal line is from - mostly Northern Europe. So how will this test help me?

          Looking at the site, they attribute a lot of diseases to genes, where you attribute them to food and environment. For instance, the heading on the site is about Muhammed Ali and how they're looking for a cure for Parkinson's by taking DNA samples of people with the disease. You have attributed Parkinson's to brain inflammation from diet or injury. We know that we all have many genes associated with diseases, but the bad switches are not turned on if we eat right and avoid environmental contaminants.

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          • I came across this blog while following random links, The Iceman*/* Getting Stronger
            In it, Dr. Jack Kruse appeared out of nowhere and laid down the law to the blogger. I am going to post this exchange in it's entirety because it is that awesome. Click the link for the full post.

            From: Todd Becker. He has degrees in Chemical Engineering and Philosophy from Stanford University and Brown University. Todd currently works as a staff scientist for a biotechnology company in Palo Alto, where he leads project teams and holds more than 20 patents.

            "I’m quite familiar with Jack Kruse and have a certain affinity for his perspective, particularly regarding the central role of the hypothalamus in regulating fat metabolism. His latest post suggests benefits from cold exposure that are similar to what I have advocated on my blog. Jack is a smart guy and has done a lot of research into the biochemistry underlying the inflammatory process.

            I did post a comment last year about his position regarding intermittent fasting (IF) on the Discussion Forum for this blog:

            Concerns raised about intermittent fasting

            While I agree with Jack on many points, there are at least two areas where my views diverge:

            1. While I believe that leptin resistance and leptin resistance are two distinct but overlapping causes of obesity, Jack believes that ALL obesity results from leptin resistance, and that everyone with insulin resistance is also leptin resistant. Read my article “Obesity starts in the brain” for evidence and references that supports my view.
            2. Jack believes that if you are leptin resistance you must eat a high protein breakfast as part of a “leptin reset”, and that IF is not advisable until you first become leptin sensitive. I cannot find any evidence or compelling argument to support his thinking in that regard, although I am open to being persuaded. My own experience is that IF is helpful for everyone in lowering basal insulin, improving insulin sensitivity and leptin sensitivity, and inducing beneficial processes such as autophagy."
            Last edited by otzi; 02-18-2012, 10:50 AM.

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            • Dr. K's response:

              I am fully aware of both of those studies but I guess where you and I differ big time is in using or thinking leptin levels matter. Dr. Rosedale popularized this. Generally most people can use this. But in this specific case leptin levels can lead you down the wrong road. If you go and read my site I have two posts that address why I do not use leptin levels. You will be fooled many times by them. One can be fully leptin resistant while having Leptin levels below ten. The key is understanding that anyone who has IR has a real problem with cortisol and leptin. Leptin controls PEPCK which is the rate limiting enzyme for gluconeogenesis is the best marker for leptin resistance for those with diabetes and IR (hepatic leptin resistance). The manner in which I diagnose this clinical scenario uses HS CRP, ferritin levels, haptoglobin, Vitamin D levels, and reverse T3 levels. If you asked me if any test by itself is best……they are not sensitive or specific enough by themselves but collectively they are powerful. But here is the big clinical point I make to other clinicians and I will make to you. Absolute numbers never trump clinical symptoms. When a number is normal but you have IR you know that at the receptor level you have a resistance problem. Most clinicians who deal with hormones know this. It appears this is not well known by PCP’s and most patients. Anyone who has IR has leptin receptor issues. The proof for you would have been labs but the real test is hormonal testing that would have uncovered it. You would have seen the yoru diurnal cortisol levels were off and this means your CRH is elevated. If you go back to my Hormone 101 post (written for a patient not a clinician). When CRH is elevated it completely turns off the thyroid at the brain level (TRH and TSH) and turns all T4 and T3 to reverse T3. When T3 is insufficient (with Vitamin A) you cant convert LDL to to pregnenlone……..or any other hormone in the chain hence the reason I check the last hormone in the process……..this tells me something upstream is radically wrong. It is biologically impossible to be IR and not have leptin resistance at the receptor levels. I know this is not discussed enough but these are clinical pearls that physicians learn with experience. If you read many anti aging books on hormone replacement or on body building forums you will see this concept over and over again. Thierry Hertoghe is probably the world expert in bioidentical hormone replacement and this is clearly outlined in his book written for the lay public too. It is my belief that Dr. Rosedale’s book and his opinion on using leptin levels to diagnose LR is an epic failure in most cases. The real reason this happens was not really known when Ron wrote his book but we do know it now and he needs to re address it so many people do not continue to make the error going forward. The reason is SNP’s found in receptor binding sites for all the hormones. THe leptin receptor has over 25 SNP’s that we now know about that can cause these results. The way you can test for this today has become quite simple and cheap. Ten years ago to get this data would have cost 1 billion dollars. Today a 200 dollar test can be done at 23andme.com to find out what SNP’s are in your genome that may affect your interpretation of your results.
              Ironically, if you go back and read the synthetic leptin trials of Amgen (pre SNP data too)…….their research scientists found the same issues to be true that I laid out here. This is why a synthetic leptin had little change in some patients and huge changes in other who we might not have expected. The Vitamin D receptor is now up to 38 SNPs and we found 8 more in 2011 alone.
              The world an internet forums are filled with people who have A TSH of 1.0 who are still hypothyroid because their LDL is high while their HDL is low with a high rev T3 and elevated HS CRP and low D levels. They remain frustrated because they are unaware of why this happens because their doctors do not know about it as well. Clinical response is not a function of the lab number (CW advice says it is) but it is a reflection of what occurs at the receptor level (evolutionary biology perspective). Most clinicians would never treat them for hypothyroidism because of the TSH level but they are hypothyroid because they are LR due to the elevated CRH at the brain level. There are three levels one can be LR at and all can be to different degrees. The brain, liver, and muscle levels. All three have different clinical presentations and symptoms. If you think you can stratify them by labs you are dead wrong. Modern medicine makes this error all the time and you read it in these two papers. They are poor papers because in their discussions neither one account for it. This is where a history and physical comes in and some detective work. I have no doubt that you used IF’ing to your benefit. But that tells me your IR was on a continuum that was not far down the metabolic turnpike and I’d love for you to get yoru SNP’s tested. You may learn something very valuable about you that cant be generalized to the everyone else. I have seen your scenario but it is rare. When it appeared we found some underlying issue with advanced testing that made sense of the clinical picture. By far most diabetics in this country are diagnosed too late. The best way to fix them is not IFing……it is fixing the leptin issue and then moving them to an IF platform. In the last 7 years I have not seen one patient with IR who did not have profound LR. This is not an either or situation. This is a continuum that we operate on as a patient improves their metabolic profiles. The best way to reverse a high T3, CRH and LR patient is not using an IF platform. Once LR is dealt with IFing is a great move.

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              • Originally posted by Dextery View Post
                i was diagnosed with mild sleep apnea and now sleep with a CPAP but my bi-phasic sleep pattern has not abated after 6 weeks. With the CPAP, I am not quite as tired as compared to pre CPAP. But not optimal by any stretch
                Dexter, did you see my post on Dr. Gominak and Vit D for people with apnea? What's your level?

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                • Originally posted by DrMommyN View Post
                  Thanks for response, natural girl. I take milk thistle. Several others suggested a liver cleanse to me before. I'd love to know Dr Kruse's thoughts on "cleanses". Isn't the leptin rx a cleanse in itself? Liver = Gut. Would I really want to use a bunch of high 06 oil (olive oil) after avoiding this long? (Just did my 06/03 ratio test - waiting results.)
                  A liver cleanse can be done with MCT oil in place of olive oil. I get my MCT oil from this company.MCT Oil 60/40 (Medium Chain Triglyceride) 3.5KG (Gallon) for $26 plus freight.
                  Item Number: C1000-G
                  Jedwards International, Inc.. bulk MCT medium chain triglycerides

                  I like this product for use to make an oil and vinegar salad dressing and I also use it in my leaky gut greek yogurt concoction.
                  MCT oil remains liquid in the fridge.

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                  • Questions on Labs

                    I have recently paid for some lab tests and now after reading the leptin posts I'm going to spring for a few more tests. I'm posting my current labs with the hope that someone might see something I'm too dull to notice. Apologies for the lengthy post.

                    Bloodwork:
                    Glucose, Serum 85 mg/dL
                    C-Reactive Protein, Quant <0.3 mg/L (i don't think this is hs-CRP)
                    Hemoglobin A1c 5.3
                    BUN 15 mg/dL
                    Creatinine, Serum 0.78
                    BUN/Creatinine Ratio 19
                    Sodium, Serum 137 mmol/L
                    Potassium, Serum 4.2 mmol/L
                    Chloride, Serum 100 mmol/L
                    Carbon Dioxide, Total 26 mmol/L
                    Calcium, Serum 9.2 mg/dL
                    Protein, Total, Serum 6.2 g/dL
                    Albumin, Serum 4.6 g/dL
                    Globulin, Total 1.6 g/dL
                    A/G Ratio 2.9 HIGH
                    Bilirubin, Total 0.6 mg/dL
                    Alkaline Phosphatase, S 49 IU/L
                    AST (SGOT) 21 IU/L
                    ALT (SGPT) 30 IU/L

                    Cholesterol, total 242 mg/dl
                    Triglycerides 67 mg/dl
                    HDL 97 mg/dl
                    LDL 132 mg/dl
                    Triglycerides/HDL ratio <1


                    TSH 1.480 uIU/mL
                    Thyroxine (T4) 5.7 ug/dL
                    T3 Uptake 40 HIGH
                    Free Thyroxine Index 2.3
                    Triiodothyronine,
                    Free,Serum 3.2 pg/mL

                    Thyroid Peroxidase (TPO) Ab 6 IU/mL
                    Antithyroglobulin Ab <20 IU/mL


                    Vitamin D, 25-Hydroxy 61.4 ng/ml


                    Day 20
                    Estradiol 171.3 pg/ml
                    Progesterone 18.1 ng/ml


                    Salivary Cortisol/DHEA from Labrix
                    DHEA 39.34 pg/ml
                    Cortisol AM 6.97 nmol/ml
                    Cortisol Noon 3.39 nmol/ml
                    Cortisol PM 2.2 nmol/ml
                    Cortisol Night 1.75 nmol/ml

                    Could the numbers on the salivary panel indicate why I have low energy levels? They are on the low end of the normal range.

                    No one can explain the High A/G ratio - they just say "thats strange". Globulin levels are at the low end while albumin is mid-range. I've googled this, but I don't seem to get anything that is helpful.

                    If you see anything interesting, please let me know. And if it were your dime which additional labs you would purchase? Has anyone ordered labs for AI issues? Which did you order and how were they helpful?

                    Comment


                    • So in Dr. K's quote above, I see,
                      "The reason is SNP’s found in receptor binding sites for all the hormones. The leptin receptor has over 25 SNP’s that we now know about that can cause these results. The way you can test for this today has become quite simple and cheap. Ten years ago to get this data would have cost 1 billion dollars. Today a 200 dollar test can be done at 23andme.com to find out what SNP’s are in your genome that may affect your interpretation of your results."

                      Okay, but I'm not sure how I myself can use this info. I certainly don't think my doctor can help interpret this. Does someone have an example of how this knowledge has helped them?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Owl View Post
                        Dexter, did you see my post on Dr. Gominak and Vit D for people with apnea? What's your level?
                        Yes I had seen it before. My pressure is a 6 on the CPAP. Very mild and I have backed off on my Vit D3. My last D3 level was 56ng/ml back in Nov. 2011 Testing again in another month. I did take 50000IU for three weeks to bump it up. I have had the bi phasic sleep pattern prior to me becoming aware of paleo and supplementation with D3.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by kkcarlton View Post
                          Is it ok to follow up the cold bath with a warm bath?
                          Anybody?
                          Started Atkins:: 1996
                          Started Paleo: 2003
                          Illness Started: 2008
                          Started Leptin Reset: 01.10.2012
                          Thighs Starting Size: 54.8 cm
                          Thighs Goal Size: 53.5 cm
                          My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread46986.html

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Coriander View Post
                            wow If you're not comfortable w/ Ivy's TSH numbers...how uncomfortable are you w/ mine at 4.12???

                            FWIW Ivy my VitD3 ws 117 last summer...Dr K is ok as long as its under 150! the closer to 100 the better...he wants it above 70 as you move into winter (for your specific hemisphere!)
                            [/QUOTE]

                            Ha - how funny - its attributing the comment to shinjin, but it was actually me

                            I know me personally - I would be pretty much comatose/staring at a wall if I was ever at 4.12! but again, its highly individual..there are people who are pretty much symptom free with even highers TSH's than your own...that's why its important to know your numbers and what YOU feel good with. I started feeling hypo and became quite symptomatic as I krept into the 1-2 range with TSH...I literally have a graph of all my escalating TSH tests over 1-2 year period that correlates perfectly with my declining health....at 2.0 i was feeling so bad and having such a hard time functioning, i was thisclose to going on medical leave...this was at the same time that my former doc told me nothing was wrong with me or my thyroid...i did some research, demanded the hashi anitbody test and the rest is history. This same doc also told me my vit d and iron levels were normal when i was actually even below normal on their range.

                            I was told by 2 people to keep the levels of vit d just under a 100. seems safe enough to me so i'm sticking with it

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Owl View Post
                              So in Dr. K's quote above, I see,
                              "The reason is SNP’s found in receptor binding sites for all the hormones. The leptin receptor has over 25 SNP’s that we now know about that can cause these results. The way you can test for this today has become quite simple and cheap. Ten years ago to get this data would have cost 1 billion dollars. Today a 200 dollar test can be done at 23andme.com to find out what SNP’s are in your genome that may affect your interpretation of your results."

                              Okay, but I'm not sure how I myself can use this info. I certainly don't think my doctor can help interpret this. Does someone have an example of how this knowledge has helped them?
                              Owl, go to 23andme.com register (free) and read the info. Tons of it. Personally, I am most interested in what my future disease potential is and how my genes affect drug treatment. They are also working on a "longevity index" based on your SNP's (not available yet).

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DrMommyN View Post
                                Thanks for response, natural girl. I take milk thistle. Several others suggested a liver cleanse to me before. I'd love to know Dr Kruse's thoughts on "cleanses". Isn't the leptin rx a cleanse in itself? Liver = Gut. Would I really want to use a bunch of high 06 oil (olive oil) after avoiding this long? (Just did my 06/03 ratio test - waiting results.)

                                You don't have to use any oil to do a liver cleanse. You're thinking of the classic gallstone flush with olive oil, which is pretty horrible, lol! That's actually separate from a real liver cleanse, which supports both Phase 1 and Phase 2 pathways of liver detoxification (Phase 1 breaks down toxins and Phase 2 conjugates them so they can be eliminated). Amino acids, choline and herbs are used for this.
                                Liver phases 1 and 2 detoxification pathways &#171; livingnetwork.co.za/


                                You can get a really good liver cleanse by using products that support both phases, like Biochem Ultimate Fat Metabolizer, which is a lipotropic liver support formula and Himalaya Liver Care, (I'd double the dose) which is an herbal formula that improves all aspects of liver function. iherb.com carries both.
                                You can also squeeze half a lemon into warm water each morning.
                                http://www.prettyinprimal.blogspot.com

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