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  • Questions regarding carbs + fats



    Okay, let me try to phrase this.


    I understand that high carbs + high fats are absolutely a no no, because an insulin spike from the carbs will cause the fats to be dragged with it and stored as body fat.


    And if your liver and glycogen stores are full, all extra carbs will be stored as fats.


    But if you train hard several times a week the carbs will not be stored as fats because they will be used solely for replenishing your glycogen.


    Right?


    I have some more but that's it for now!

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  • #2
    1



    It&#39;s not so simple

    Fat storage is an ungoing process that occurss 24/24

    Eventually what matters is the balance between the fat you store and the fat you mobilize at the end of the day, not whether you&#39;re storing the fat you&#39;re eating since it is going to occur no matter what.


    Convertion of carbs to fat is actually not strong in humans and requires extra calories to be activated.

    So fat + carbs doesn&#39;t make much of a difference as long as you&#39;re not abusing calories, because prandial fat storage is practically irrelevant. I know people like the idea that the body process might be that simple, but it doesn&#39;t work that way.

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    • #3
      1



      Raphael this is an interesting summary from the International Canoe Federation


      http://www.canoeicf.com/default.asp?Page=2166&MenuID=medical_and_anti-doping%2F1028%2F0%2CNutrition%2F1471%2F0&Format=pr int


      I hope that helps you.

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      • #4
        1



        Vick - while a great article, it doesn&#39;t address any of my questions. I asked specifically about the combination of carbs and fats - nothing about protein.


        I did find this interesting:


        Whilst a non-exercising person might get away with dropping out carbs and increasing protein, someone who’s training hard won’t. Dropping carbs will result in increased fatigue, an inability to train effectively, and may reduce your immune function, making you more prone to getting sick. If you eat a high protein diet AND maintain your carbohydrate intake as well, then you may very well gain body fat!
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        • #5
          1



          Dropping the carbs will result in increased fatigue and inability to train effectively - for a few weeks until you are adapted.

          Dropping carbs will not reduce your immune function and make you more prone to getting sick.

          A lot of people when they are eating more carbs in a meal limit the fat.


          Niklas where did you get this from:

          "Convertion of carbs to fat is actually not strong in humans and requires extra calories to be activated."

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          • #6
            1



            Sue, I don&#39;t understand how one can EVER adapt to working out with a depleted glycogen store. Sure, your body makes glycogen out of protein, but that&#39;s not very efficient - it&#39;s a waste of protein and does not fully replenish glycogen. That much I know..


            I have been training 3 times a week, every week since going primal - that&#39;s 3 months already. I&#39;m very adapted to low carb - eat ~70% fats and I can do 24 hour fasts without the ill effects - but there&#39;s no way I can lift BIG without carbs. I&#39;ve learned that through experience. I lost a heck of a lot of muscle.


            But that aside - I also heard that when people eat a good amount of carbs in a meal, they make sure to increase the fat in order to slow down the insulin response.

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            • #7
              1



              @Sue

              Lyle McDonald posted several studies that proved that unless an extreme caloric excess is created, lipogenesis (carb to fat convertion) doesn&#39;t occur at any appreciable level in subjects fed lot of carbs or lot of carbs and fats. Such pathway seems to be very active in other animals but not in humans. In humans is activated only when more calories than can be used are eaten.

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              • #8
                1



                @Raphael - According to Body By Science, your skeletal glycogen stores take about a full week to 10 days to replenish when you are lifting BIG and truly depleting your stores. If you&#39;re lifting three times a week with heavy loads you are not giving your muscles enough time to recover and hence the loss in muscle and potentially strength. The research shows that there is no benefit to lifting heavy weight more than once a week...in fact it&#39;s a detrement to what your goals are.


                I&#39;m positive you could lift big once a week on little to no carbs.

                I grok, therefore I am.

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                • #9
                  1



                  @lovestoclimb. I introduced the big 5 to a friend today. He exercised... I timed. After he was done I showed him the power cage and static contraction. (he has read about.) The last time I did a true static contraction drill was Oct 19th. I did a static hold for a bench press back then at 345 lbs. I loaded it up and did 365 lbs today.


                  Then before dinner my wife and did our big 5 together.


                  I agree training 3 times a week is overtraining.

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                  • #10
                    1



                    Proof that the scientific approach works! Kudos for BBS!


                    I only have theory to go on for this. I still haven&#39;t put BBS into practice as I&#39;m not quite done the book. Don&#39;t have a gym membership either...yet.


                    How did you figure out what weight load/time to start at when you initially began the big 5?

                    I grok, therefore I am.

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                    • #11
                      1



                      Trial and error. I&#39;m keeping set times between about 10 and 70 seconds. My leg press last week was 270 lbs. for 71 seconds. This week it was 360 lbs. for 53 seconds. Next week I&#39;ll start at 410 lbs.

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                      • #12
                        1



                        "According to Body By Science, your skeletal glycogen stores take about a full week to 10 days to replenish when you are lifting BIG and truly depleting your stores."


                        Isn&#39;t that where the carbs come in? They allow you to replenish your glycogen stores and thus to train more frequently.


                        3 times a week is overtraining??? Come on guys. Besides, I&#39;m not training the same muscle group every time.

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                        • #13
                          1



                          ...Just providing you with a different take on this whole situation.


                          And quite honestly, I haven&#39;t really read anything in the book that deals with nutrition and exactly the best method of re-fueling those glycogen stores. I don&#39;t see why this can&#39;t be done with fruit and veg.


                          Give the book a read, at the very least there&#39;s some really great information in there about how the body responds to working out.


                          I should also say that I have no issue carbs in the form of fruit/veg. They&#39;re the best!

                          I grok, therefore I am.

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