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Denise Minger: Is Wild Fruit Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar?

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  • Denise Minger: Is Wild Fruit Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar?

    Wild and Ancient Fruit: Is it Really Small, Bitter, and Low in Sugar? « Raw Food SOS: Troubleshooting on the Raw Food Diet
    Originally posted by Denise Minger
    For those looking at evolution for clues about the optimal human diet, fruit is often regarded with suspicion. On one hand, few foods are “intended” for consumption in the way fruit is: In a lovely act of symbiosis, plants offer nourishment to the animal kingdom in trade for seed dispersal. But on the other hand—the one purpled with blackberry stains—we humans are famous for playing Food God, turning once-healthy things into gross abominations. For hundreds (and in some cases, thousands) of years, we’ve been selectively breeding certain fruits to become bigger, prettier, easier to eat, and easier to transport thousands of miles away from their mothering trees. As a result, the waxed apples and seedless watermelons lining store aisles are a far cry from their wild ancestors.

    And for the health minded, this is a predicament. How can we reconcile this year-round supply of modern fruit with the wild stuff we encountered in the past?
    What does everybody think? I'll give up fruit when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
    Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
    Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
    No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
    Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

  • #2
    Ha. I was about to post this link too.

    Denise presents probably the most reasoned discussion of fruit in our diets to date. It doesn't really settle anything on the health side but she touches on why she can't also.

    I so much like sincere, reasoned, non-drama-laden, non-strawman-laden discussions of fruit in paleo diets, which Denise pulls off quite well.

    Unlike this one where the author is completely full of drama, straw arguments, and distortions of how the paleo community reacts (in every posting): Paleo Diet Experiment: A Former Vegan Gives It A Try for 30 Days
    Last edited by wildwabbit; 05-31-2011, 06:26 PM.

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    • #3
      She's hot, what are we discussing here? that she's hot? because then I'm in agreement, that she's hot.

      Btw, Denise. Hot.
      I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

      Comment


      • #4
        I thought about this the other day when I saw some chimps chowing down on figs on some nature show.

        The author has good points, but it's still a bit odd. We typically say that fruits at the supermarket are bred to be larger and sweeter. That is a fact. But, the author is saying no, big sweet fruits exist too. OK fine, but did Grok eat these? We don't know. Some of the examples are from South America, and primates are said to have evolved in Africa. Why use South American fruit to back up the argument? Makes no sense.

        People have been going back and forth the same way over grains. All this is semi interesting, but not really the point.

        I think the point of this is that we use our best judgement to understand how nature intended for us to thrive, and make our best choices. We know that people are equipped to live off fat, carbs, and protein, and these three process in different ways. Just because we CAN live off each, it does not follow that there is a set formula for mixing the three that works for everyone the same way.

        As far as "I won't give up MY fruit," you don't need a blog to give you permission. If you have your fruit and you are happy with your weight and blood tests. Heck, go for it. If you are trying to do better, not giving up something can get in the way.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
          She's hot, what are we discussing here? that she's hot? because then I'm in agreement, that she's hot.

          Btw, Denise. Hot.
          I noticed that too!

          Comment


          • #6
            You guys can have Denise Minger. I just want a monkey orange (which is from Africa, not South America!).
            Last edited by Mirrorball; 05-31-2011, 07:28 PM.
            Height: 5'4" (1.62 m)
            Starting weight (09/2009): 200 lb (90.6 kg)
            No longer overweight (08/2010): 145 lb (65.6 kg)
            Current weight (01/2012): 127 lb (57.5 kg)

            Comment


            • #7
              I want monkey sex with Denise, that's similar right?
              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

              Comment


              • #8
                There was no agriculture in the entire continent of Australia until 1788. There is not one indigenous fruit that is now widely available, despite fruits being a part of the diet of the aborigines. The indigenous fruits just aren't palatable enough for those raised on other fruits. Not a stretch to imagine that what we found in Australia is what we once had globally
                Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DFH View Post
                  I thought about this the other day when I saw some chimps chowing down on figs on some nature show.

                  The author has good points, but it's still a bit odd. We typically say that fruits at the supermarket are bred to be larger and sweeter. That is a fact. But, the author is saying no, big sweet fruits exist too. OK fine, but did Grok eat these? We don't know. Some of the examples are from South America, and primates are said to have evolved in Africa. Why use South American fruit to back up the argument? Makes no sense.

                  People have been going back and forth the same way over grains. All this is semi interesting, but not really the point.

                  I think the point of this is that we use our best judgement to understand how nature intended for us to thrive, and make our best choices. We know that people are equipped to live off fat, carbs, and protein, and these three process in different ways. Just because we CAN live off each, it does not follow that there is a set formula for mixing the three that works for everyone the same way.

                  As far as "I won't give up MY fruit," you don't need a blog to give you permission. If you have your fruit and you are happy with your weight and blood tests. Heck, go for it. If you are trying to do better, not giving up something can get in the way.
                  I never watch nature shows but I actually saw this one. Is it the one where they invade another tribe of chimps for the figs?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by kurite View Post
                    I never watch nature shows but I actually saw this one. Is it the one where they invade another tribe of chimps for the figs?
                    I think it was. I wasn't really glued to it.

                    BTW, has anyone thought or written about pre-Paleo primates in terms of plant foods vs meat and traced this over time? We don't exactly have teeth and claws like big cats. Don't gorillas eat mostly plant foods? Is the theory that homo sapiens (and previous iterations) learned tools and hunting long ago enough that eating meat and fish are now part of who we are?

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                    • #11
                      'no agriculture in the entire continent of Australia until 1788. '
                      I think I have to call BS on this. The aborigines practiced agriculture when the white men 'discovered' australia. There are records of early settlers seeing Aborigines planting squash seeds in piles of animal poop. Also the Aborigines had a very complex system of burning off sections of the outback to ensure plants grew properly. The white settles stopped this practice and the outback has never recovered. Today they are trying to rediscover the patteren and timing the Aborigines used for their controlled burns.
                      And if you think cultivars are sweeter that wild, think again. They are often larger but Strawberries, blueberries, raspberries are all much sweeter in their wild form. Even some wild apples are sweeter (and tarter) than their tamer cousins. Has no one on this forum gone out and eaten wild fruit and berries.

                      Cheers
                      J

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                      • #12
                        Agreed! When I was a boy my friends and I would often pick wild fruit and berries. It was typically much sweeter (but sometimes smaller and more fragile) than the stuff in stores. Wild huckleberries, blackberries, strawberries, salmonberries -- all at least as sweet as and typically much sweeter than the junk that is known in the produce trade as "California cardboard." Honestly, I don't think most Americans have any idea what a blackberry actually is supposed to taste like.

                        Of course, it is possible that these wild species were offshoots of cultivars that spread. I don't know. Seems unlikely, though. The sweetness that attracts human beings attracts other animals and is highly adaptive in spreading seeds, I would imagine. Any bird worth its salt would turn up his beak at a peach from California.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks for posting this! I've been looking for information like this for ages. I've actually been looking for studies that test the influence of fructose in whole natural fruits, but without any luck. And now Denise comes here and tells me that there are no studies like these! I have gotten into several debates over fruits, the main point people bring out is the fructose content of sugar, but I always say that "how can you put fruit fructose and HFCS fructose in the same boat?"

                          By the way, I haven't read much from Denise Minger, but she writes damn well! I should start reading more from her.

                          I also have to mention that I think this debate over fruit being different now than it was in the past is quite pointless, everything is different now! You think your meat and vegetables look, taste, and digest the same way like in the past? Hardly.

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                          • #14
                            Don't gorillas eat mostly plant foods?
                            They swallow plant food but absorb..........fatty acids, Bit like cows being made of grass. (different plumbing ,though)

                            Gorillas have got fruit guts so there must have been lots of fruits.
                            Last edited by localad; 06-01-2011, 12:11 AM.
                            activate the rhythm, the rhythm that has always been within

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Risto View Post
                              .
                              .

                              I also have to mention that I think this debate over fruit being different now than it was in the past is quite pointless, everything is different now! You think your meat and vegetables look, taste, and digest the same way like in the past? Hardly.
                              There is a point to it, because what it really is about is are we well adapted to eat this stuff and how much? Even of we knew all there is to know about that, we still should factor that into what is known and decide from there.

                              Even if someone could go back in a time machine and show Grok and Co eating tons of fruit, I still wouldn't do it because it just doesn't work for me. It would be interesting though.

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