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Leangains - macro nutrients on workout and non-workout days?

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  • Leangains - macro nutrients on workout and non-workout days?

    There are very varied opinions on the internet. Mark's take on one of his posts calls a "primal refeed" a refeed you do once, maybe twice a week where you eat, at least 250-300 grams of carbs. The refeed is basically every workout day someone might be doing on Leangains.

    Anyway, there are people saying they go from 150g to 300 grams of carbs on workout days, and less (100 or 50 for example) on non workout days.

    What are some good macro nutrients for leangains on workout and non workout days? At least when it comes to fat people go around the 50-60g mark.

    And by the way, some people say you shouldn't do Leangains until you're at a sufficiently low body fat. I must be 15% or so... does that make me not that useful for body recomposition?

  • #2
    I don't know Martin's specifics for macronutrient breakdown, but unless you are insulin resistant a large'ish amount of carbohydrates within an hour of training (heavily) is actually productive. I have also noticed that if I eat more carbs after lifting (200g within an hour usually) I am much leaner and less "puffy" looking the next day.
    15% is definitely low enough. Follow one of his training/eating protocols (they are on his site somewhere) for at least 2 weeks and see what happens.
    People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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    • #3
      I think this is all individual and I tend to follow Robb Wolfe the closest and this might be because I was too a vegetarian which led to insulin problems just like Robb.

      While I eat higher carb 1-2x a week, I don't do well with high carb directly after a workout. At all. I look and feel much leaner when I do higher carbs 1-2 times a week and the rest keep it between 50 and 75. My goal is lean though, not building mass or things like Cross fit, in fact Robb even says that this way will not win any CF competitions. I'm not a fan of anything directly after a workout though except a glass of salty water with or without lemon or lime. I need at least 30 minutes more towards an hour or I feel sick no matter what I eat.

      Robb states that if you have no insulin sensitivity issues then higher carbs PW will probably be beneficial.

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      • #4
        I had around 1300 calories meal after my workout today, out of which 160g were of carbs alone. I've had plenty of day where I wasn't working out (or just doing nothing) where I had 1500 calorie meals but that's another story.

        My 1300 calorie lunch post workout meal was 32grams of fat, however my dinner was spoiled because I had a Larabar Bar cashew and some Artisana's Cacao and Coconut Butter, which is upping the fat ratio a bit overboard.

        Still, I probably had 250g of carbs today and 70-100 of fat, and the rest protein.

        One thing I want to point out is, for the next folllowing 5 hours after my lunch, I get a bit uncomfortable when breathing (and low pulse rate, I'm already on the low side) and also a bit low on energy. My explanation for this is that I ate so many white potatoes (and 500g of goat milk) that my body is pushing all the blood for all that digestion. Or maybe it's related to another issue I have, because i have swollen feet and I'm yet to find the cause for them (both my liver and heart are ok).

        After the 5 hour period I started breathing better, and as the hours passed and I'm getting close to dinner my body starts to wake up. Bad idea if you want to sleep afterwards, and I've been having lots of problems sleeping after a couple of months of going primal.

        Anyway, I'm still searching for a good macronutrient partition. I'm currently working out 2 days a week and from all the notes and info I gathered you're supposed to have, on workout days:

        - High carb
        - Moderate protein
        - Low Fat

        Non workout days

        - High protein
        - Moderate fat
        - Low carb (or moderate)

        Determine your calorie maintenance level. Martin has his formula, multiply your bodyweight in lbs by 13-14 and then add or subtract 20% on workout and non workout days. So in my case let's suppose I'm at 2000 calories maintenance. Rest days I should be around 1600, and workout at 2400 calories.

        I rarely end up eating that little or that much, and by the way, shouldn't you account any cardio you do for the rest days to make up for the calories?

        In either case, I'm probably not at a body fat stage where I should be attempting Leangains. I am however, whether I workout or not, doing a 16-8ish 2 meals a day routine.

        I think I'm a bit obsessed with food, meals and exercise (even though I'm having less).

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        • #5
          More thoughts?

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          • #6
            I don't really have anything to add (sorry) but I would like to know what your fitness routines consist of to make sense of your carb intake levels. For instance, when you eat a lot of carbs after a workout, is it after a 30 minute cardio session, or are you guys going for like 2 hours of cardio plus lifting? Just trying to figure out my own carb intake for my own fitness level - I'm usually at about 30-45 minutes of cardio/day (1 or 2 days off/week), sometimes with strength training. I also have a physically demanding job so I get a lot of my strength workout from that.

            Thanks guys!

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            • #7
              I think you have to quantify "workout". Lifting weights for half an hour or an hour or walking a treadmill is different than playing racketball or hockey (which is my workout).

              After doing primal for a about 6 months now, I'm doing the carbing up on my "workout" days and back to primal on the off days and it seems to be working energy-wise. However if you're lifting weights for 45 minutes a day you quite possibly don't need to carb up at all, unless the carb refeeds are for a different reason than energy.

              My dilemma is something like yours I think. I want to lean out a little (abs) but still need energy for sports, which I play every other day (and wouldn't change). So I need less calories for the leaning out part and more energy for the sports. Sort of a conundrum.

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              • #8
                I'm using a leangains approach as well. My fast is usually about 17 hours with 3 meals all after my workout. Weekdays the first two meals have CHO around 90 grams with fat less than 20 grams and PRO around 70 grams. My last meal is about 20 grams of CHO, 70 grams of PRO and 50 grams of fat. I don't feel this is optimal for me yet but I'm not going to tinker again with these macros until i plateau.

                Weekends are usually 2-3 meals where I only track protein (~200 grams) and make sure to eat veggie/fruit with each meal and limit carbs in last meal and replace the carbs with fat sources.
                Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
                -Paul the Apostle, 1 Cor 6:19-20

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                • #9
                  I was also wondering if anyone is doing 2 meals a day when IF'ing like me.

                  For example let's say I workout at 11-12pm. My post-workout meal is usually ending at 1pm-1.30pm, up to 1500 calories or so. Then my last meal is only at 9pm, for a total of 2 meals.

                  On non-workout days I also only have 2 meals a day, in the same 16/8 fashion. Are the 3 meals a better option?

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                  • #10
                    I don't follows Martin's protocol, but I IF 15-16 hours almost every day and 2 meals is easier for me from a time standpoint. An extra meal means extra time preparing the meal and washing dishes etc. I usually do 1st meal starting at 12:00 and 2nd meal starting at 18:00. I might also drink milk on workout days or eat a piece of fruit independent of these 2 meals.

                    Anyways afaik there aren't any benefits to 3 meals a day compared to 2 if
                    - If 2 meals is easier for you than 3.
                    - If you are able to eat sufficient calories in 2 meals.
                    - Your hunger is controllable with this eating pattern.

                    If you were to train after your first meal then 3 meals could have a benefit for nutrient timing as more calories would be consumed PWO if you ate 2/3 meals PWO rather than 1/2 meals. Can't say if this has a noticeable effect past theory though.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JPA View Post
                      I was also wondering if anyone is doing 2 meals a day when IF'ing like me.

                      For example let's say I workout at 11-12pm. My post-workout meal is usually ending at 1pm-1.30pm, up to 1500 calories or so. Then my last meal is only at 9pm, for a total of 2 meals.

                      On non-workout days I also only have 2 meals a day, in the same 16/8 fashion. Are the 3 meals a better option?
                      JPA, Martin says in his blog it doesn't really matter how many meals are in the 8 hour feeding window, just that you feel satiated and ending in the 8 hour window. If you feel full during the 8 hours no reason to add a third meal I would think.
                      Self-realization. I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, "... I drank what?"

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                      • #12
                        That's exactly the case guys, I usually end my post workout meal at 1.30pm... then my last one, dinner, is ending at around 9pm or 9.30pm max. I have no hunger until then, I was just thinking that one might "need" to keep constantly force feeding the body for nutrients. I guess that's not the case then.

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                        • #13
                          Intermittent Fasting for Strength Training and Fat Loss - Part Two - Page 156 - Bodybuilding.com Forums

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                          • #14
                            I notice that I can't keep up with the -20%calorie deficit. I get too weak... since I train 2x per week this means 2 times per week I eat above 20% calories... and I should supposedly, in the other 5 days, eat -20% calorie deficit.

                            This is making me too thin and making me lose a lot of weight, and additionally tiring me. So my strategy is going to be having 2 days of calorie deficit, 2 days of calorie surplus (the workout days), 2 around maintenance and the other 1 above maintenance, usually Sunday, even if I don't workout. I've lost 2kgs in the last week by trying to go deficit on all 5 days and getting pretty wasted so this appears to be a good compromise.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Reacher View Post
                              I think you have to quantify "workout". Lifting weights for half an hour or an hour or walking a treadmill is different than playing racketball or hockey (which is my workout).

                              After doing primal for a about 6 months now, I'm doing the carbing up on my "workout" days and back to primal on the off days and it seems to be working energy-wise. However if you're lifting weights for 45 minutes a day you quite possibly don't need to carb up at all, unless the carb refeeds are for a different reason than energy.

                              My dilemma is something like yours I think. I want to lean out a little (abs) but still need energy for sports, which I play every other day (and wouldn't change). So I need less calories for the leaning out part and more energy for the sports. Sort of a conundrum.
                              Um, what?

                              Not to be a jerk but...

                              If you think a hockey game is more intense than a 45min weight lifting session then you are a.) not in good enough shape to be playing hockey or b.) not lifting weights properly. Not to mention I only see fat middle aged men play raquetball.

                              The term "Refeed" was born out of weight lifting culture. Made popular recently by Lyle Mcdonald's UD2 and Martin's Leangains.

                              Also, decreasing calories (trying to lean out) while increasing activity (playing sports every other day) at an already below average BF% (15-18%) is a recipe for failure not a conundrum.
                              Don't be a paleotard...

                              http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

                              http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

                              http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

                              http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

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