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Organic Fats(e.g butter, lard, tallow) or Organic meat?

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  • Organic Fats(e.g butter, lard, tallow) or Organic meat?

    Hello guys, as you guys know, organic stuff is no cheap stuff(esp for a student like me). I read that Mark advocates that spending on organic meat is more important than organic produce. And i also heard that the major difference between organic and commercial meat is mainly the fat profile, which is where the antibiotics, hormones injected stays at?

    So i would like to ask a question, which is more value for money to spend my money on? Organic meat or organic fats like lard, butter, tallow, bacon? Because from the explanation above, commercial fats will be more harmful and it's wiser to spend money on organic fats(used for cooking) than meat if i were to choose only one?

  • #2
    I think I'd agree with you and go for organic fats to cook your (lean) non-organic meat in. And cheap fish - think mackerel, herring, sardines for instance.

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    • #3
      I am an advocate of Bee Wilder's "Healing Naturally" who follows a basic Paleo eating plan. She, too, would prefer that we use organic, but she also understands financial constraints. I've searched through her archives and found these tidbits:

      "Don't be overly concerned about quality since even pasteurized butter contains important nutrients. " [just buy unsalted and add your own GOOD sea salt.]

      "Farm fish are also okay if they are not sick, which would be obvious. Companies couldn't put farm fish on the market if they were sick anyway."

      "it is wise to eliminate as many toxins as possible, but use good judgement and also consider your resources and finances. I wouldn't want anyone
      to think they are doing themselves a disservice by consuming non-organic meats."

      "+++It much more important to obtain the nutrients in them rather than become overly concerned about possible toxins [such as mercury or antibiotics in meat]. "

      "It is totally false that antibiotics, vaccines, hormone treatments, etc. are in
      commercial meats, since all animal bodies detoxify them just like ours do.
      Also, they butcher meats long before the animal could be very unhealthy, i.e.
      have cancer, etc.

      So it is more important to eat such meats than to avoid them, since meat is meat
      and it will contain a lot of great nutrients and fats.

      However, organic or certified organic animals that are fed natural foods they
      bodies are designed to have will have healthier meats and fats since their meat
      and fat will be constructed according to the way Nature intended."

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      • #4
        Originally posted by it1958 View Post
        "It is totally false that antibiotics, vaccines, hormone treatments, etc. are in
        commercial meats, since all animal bodies detoxify them just like ours do.
        Also, they butcher meats long before the animal could be very unhealthy, i.e.
        have cancer, etc."
        She's in a very small minority of people in the health community if she thinks that. Detox is hampered by poor diet, stress, etc., which are all things that these poor animals endure. There is just so very much evidence to the contrary of her claims. I'm not sure where she gets them from.

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        • #5
          Organic fat is priority #1, IMO.
          Lifting Journal

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Sun View Post
            She's in a very small minority of people in the health community if she thinks that. Detox is hampered by poor diet, stress, etc., which are all things that these poor animals endure. There is just so very much evidence to the contrary of her claims. I'm not sure where she gets them from.
            Well....? Aren't we in the paleo world in the minority, too? Just because she is in the 'very small minority', does that make her wrong?

            I had to go back through more posts (gladly) to find her reasoning and here it is:

            "Why Non-Organic Meats Are Safe to Eat

            Re: Antibiotics, Pesticides, Growth Hormones, etc. in Non-Organic Meats

            "It is a fact" that all bodies (animal, human, fish, etc.) chemically change
            everything consumed, and they remove (detoxify) substances like antibiotics,
            vaccines, pesticides, toxins, etc. Therefore those substances are not in the
            makeup (construction) of meat or fat cells so they are safe to consume.

            It is true those substances can make the animals sick, however the animals are
            slaughtered long before they become unhealthy.

            The following is from: Myths, Distortions and Lies About Beef. Organic, Pesticides, Antibiotics and Health.

            1) Antibiotics are removed by the body of the animal over time just as they are
            in humans. The administration of antibiotics is stopped in advance of slaughter
            to allow the antibiotics to be removed naturally by the animal. Therefore, we
            should have very little concern about the presence of antibiotics in the meat we
            purchase at the supermarket, cook, and serve to our families.

            2) Hormones are naturally present in infinitesimal amounts in all meat, whether
            from implanted animals or not. There is more estrogen in plant-source foods,
            especially soy, than there is in meat. The human body produces hormones in
            quantities much greater than would ever be consumed by eating beef or other
            foods. Hormones in beef from implanted steers have no physiological significance
            for humans whatsoever. The estrogen level in a 3-oz. serving of beef from an
            implanted steer is 1.85 nanograms. (A nanogram is a billionth of a gram.) The
            level in the same size portion of beef from a non-implanted steer is 1.3
            nanograms. By comparison, a non-pregnant woman produces 480,000 nanograms of
            estrogen daily.

            3) . . .the animal's liver removes the pesticide in the same way as it does in
            humans."

            ETA link (from her forum): <http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/candidasupport/message/100328>
            Last edited by it1958; 05-25-2011, 02:38 PM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Sun View Post
              She's in a very small minority of people in the health community if she thinks that. Detox is hampered by poor diet, stress, etc., which are all things that these poor animals endure. There is just so very much evidence to the contrary of her claims. I'm not sure where she gets them from.
              What evidence is there that CAFO meats have dangerous amounts of hormones, antibiotics, etc? Even Mark admitted that any antibiotics given to animals are not present in the meat products (this agree with the fact that all farmers are obligated by law to withdraw the injection of antibiotics 21 days before slaughter to eliminate them from the body)

              Don made a great series on the issue--->Primal Wisdom: A Practically Primal Perspective on Conventional Beef, Part 1: Hormones

              Primal Wisdom: The Practically Primal Guide to Conventional Beef, Part 2: Antibiotics, Chemicals, and Pesticides

              I have not seen any rebuttal to the above......

              Listen, i am all for organic/local/pasture raised animals (the way nature intended) (and 50% of my weekly meats comes from these animals), but the claim that CAFO meats have dangerous amounts of hormones, antibiotics, etc, seem like a myth to me and others. Not surprising, the only ones who told me this throughout my life were vegans/vegetarians. The nutrition found in meat/organs (whether it is CAFO or not not) outweighs any potential health risks involved eating CAFO meats.

              The only issues I see with CAFO meats are omega 6:3 ratio (not a issue with beef, lamb, goat, and bison), animal welfare and environmental status. As I and others have mention in this site and elsewhere, not eating grains, sugar, processed meats and highly rancid vegetable oil is what really matters. This does not mean that you should not aim for organic/local/pasture animals, and to some extent (organic fruits/veggies) (because you should), but rather, each of us needs to make choices based on our financial situation. What is really important is eating WHOLE FOODS (fruits, vegetables, nuts, tubers, meats, fats, etc), eliminating inflammation, and this alone will bring good health.
              Last edited by Zed; 05-25-2011, 04:47 PM.

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              • #8
                Wow, thanks alot guys, there is alot of wonderful information here which i will save for reading later.

                I didn't know there are such different perspectives on this issue, but i think it makes me feel better as a student with limited financial power to buy organic meats and have no options other than either eating non-organic meat or not eating meat. Like what Zed mentioned, i guess it's the fundamental ''primal/paleo eating'' that is important. Thanks for the links on the different perspective on meat again.

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                • #9
                  Don't overlook the fact that the fat you eat - butter, lard, tallow, cream etc - will have a better omega 3 / 6 balance if it is organic, and a higher omega 6 content if it is commercially reared.

                  I'd go for eating any meat, but only organic / grass fed fats.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                    Don't overlook the fact that the fat you eat - butter, lard, tallow, cream etc - will have a better omega 3 / 6 balance if it is organic, and a higher omega 6 content if it is commercially reared.

                    I'd go for eating any meat, but only organic / grass fed fats.
                    We need to put this into perspective.

                    While it is true that non organic/pasture animals will have unnatural ratio of omega 6:3 and total PUFA will increase, such facts are insignificant when it comes to beef/bison, as both have very little PUFA/omega 6 to begin with, whether it is grass-finished or grain-finished compare to fatty cuts of chicken/pork. Lamb/Goat also have very PUFA compare to chicken/pork. In other words, if you limit your consumption of chicken, pork, highly rancid vegetable oils, avocados, and most nuts, and stick to beef/bison/goat/lamb as your meat sources (whether it is from grain-finished or grass-finished animals), your omega 6:3 ratio will not be all that bad, and a optimum ratio can be obtained either by eating weekly servings of fatty fish or by taking fish oil, the later being less ideal.

                    While I buy organic/grass-fed/local meats, I also buy CAFO beef/lamb (usually the fatty cuts), and even when I eat CAFO beef/lamb, my average omega 6:3 ratio is 5:1-4:1 and total PUFA is 10 grams or less.

                    Butter and Cream (whether it is from grass-finished cows or not) have very little PUFA and omega 6 to begin with. Unless one eat a insanely amount of CAFO beef/lamb/bison/butter/cream, then I wouldn't worry amount them.
                    Last edited by Zed; 05-26-2011, 01:42 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by breadsauce View Post
                      Don't overlook the fact that the fat you eat - butter, lard, tallow, cream etc - will have a better omega 3 / 6 balance if it is organic, and a higher omega 6 content if it is commercially reared.

                      I'd go for eating any meat, but only organic / grass fed fats.
                      Not necessarily, it depends what the animal was fed. A pig fed with organic corn may be sold as 'Organic' but it will still have an Omega 6/3 ratio much higher than that of a non-organic but free-range pig.
                      My Journal

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by it1958 View Post
                        I had to go back through more posts (gladly) to find her reasoning and here it is:
                        Yeah, I'm still not convinced, but that's O.K. We don't have to agree on everything.

                        Originally posted by Zed View Post
                        What evidence is there that CAFO meats have dangerous amounts of hormones, antibiotics, etc?
                        A lot of my research over the years has been from book-reading and journal articles, rather than online resources, so I have to admit that I don't have all of the necessary info at my fingertips to point you to. Kinda sucks when you have to support your theories! But just logically speaking, it seems reasonable that animals who are not fed as well and are given various unhealthy additives or medications, like in the case of CAFO stock, will not be as healthy. Otherwise, why do we bother eating healthily ourselves if our bodies can just detox naturally and remove all of the dangerous substances? Bring on the grains, baby!

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