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  • Daily fruit and veggie intake.

    I used to be a vegetarian, so I rather enjoy fruits and vegetables. I was wondering, how much is too much?

  • #2
    There's really not much of a limit at all for non-starchy vegatables. It is next to impossible to blow any macro-nutrient limits eating non-starchy vegetables.

    Fruits are basically bags of sugar. So the limits on fruits boil down to the limits of sugars and overall carbohydrates per day. There are many variants of paleo type diets, but rarely does any recommend people excite 100-150 grams of carbohydrates. Those that do, actually recommend doing so via small amounts of rice or sweet potato to avoid the fructose.

    And this is all because the vast amount of research followed by paleo folx centers around controlling the damaging effects of sugar and carbs in general.

    Also depends on your weight loss plan. If you want to lose weight, particularly fast, its usually necessary to go very low carb. If you reached a maintenance point, there is room to play around with how much carbs (and therefore sugars) you can put into your diet.

    But if someone starts off first on a supposed paleo diet, not really doing paleo but eating as many fruits as they want, then they won't learn how the diet really affects their body without the excess carbs, in order to best know the impact of adding them back in.

    Recommendation is usually that people be strict for 30 days so there is a baseline understanding of the impact of the diet on the body, as well as forcing the body to change its metabolism, and add things back in from there.

    However, people can do what they want, and people around here usually do, they just do it from a standpoint of experience and knowledge.

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    • #3
      Depends on your nutritional goals. If you're trying to lose weight, you can go bananas on veggies, but cannot veg on couch with bananas.
      --Trish (Bork)
      TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
      http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
      FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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      • #4
        I need to lose weight, alot, so I limit fruit to occasionally, except for a big bowl of mixed berries for breakfast, usually with heavy cream or coconut milk. I did eat several bananas last week, usually one every other day or so, and I might pick up half a dozen pears which would last me a week. Most of the time though, I'm not a big fruit eater outside of berries.

        Veggies, I eat quite a bit. I don't eat any potatoes at the moment, but I will eat the occasional yam. I eat tons of leafy greens, onions, garlic, broccoli, cauliflower, some carrots but I'm not that big a fan, and if another non-starchy veg catches my eye, its also a free for all. I suspect I'll be having a zucchini-fest soon. I go on red and yellow bell pepper episodes every once in a while too, where I'll eat a couple a day.
        Fighting fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain since 2002.

        Big Fat Fiasco

        Our bodies crave real food. We remain hungry as long as we refuse to eat real food, no matter how much junk we stuff into our stomachs. ~J. Stanton

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        • #5
          Just tried acorn squash for the first time and I think I'm in love...
          Durp.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by RitaRose View Post
            Just tried acorn squash for the first time and I think I'm in love...
            you think you are in love now? Bake that acorn baby half way, and meanwhile dice up some apple, toss it in a bowl with some walnuts, melt butter, drizzle & toss with cinnamon, stuff acorn squash, throw it back in oven & finish baking!
            --Trish (Bork)
            TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
            http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
            FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

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            • #7
              Eat your apple, as long as you climb the tree to get it. Have your berries, as long as you've walked some miles to find them.

              It's my understanding that fructose is mostly bad when your liver glycogen is already full, so if you've been working out, that's the best time to eat the fruit.
              "Thanks to the combination of meat, calcium-rich leaf foods, and a vigorous life, the early hunter-gatherers were robust, with strong skeletons, jaws, and teeth." - Harold McGee, On Food And Cooking: The Science and Lore of the Kitchen

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              • #8
                Fruits are definitely not just "sugar bags." This argument is usually based upon lectures and literature put out by Lustig, Taubes, and other low-carb enthusiasts. The basic idea is that any fructose, be it fructose from ultra-processed sweeteners like high fructose corn syrup or fructose from entirely unprocessed foods like mangoes, is sent to the liver and converted to fat. The hilarity of the argument is that it ignores countless other biochemical processes that occur when you eat foods. Fructose doesn't just go "straight to the liver and turn into fat." There is much more to it than that. If it were this simple, fruitarians would be obese. I definitely wouldn't ever recommend a fruitarian diet, but I fail to see how anyone can consider a mango to be a fattening or metabolically damaging food. Mangoes, melons, papayas, bananas, dates, etc. did not make you fat or diseased. I would rather not take advice from someone who would have me eat a processed piece of bacon before an unprocessed banana.

                You don't need to be eating fifteen pieces of fruit a day, but if you feel like having three or four (or maybe even five, OMGGGZZZZ) and you have no negative reaction, go for it.

                Last edited by tarek; 05-23-2011, 09:06 PM.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by tarek View Post
                  Fruits are definitely not just "sugar bags."

                  <snip>

                  You don't need to be eating fifteen pieces of fruit a day, but if you feel like having three or four (or maybe even five, OMGGGZZZZ) and you have no negative reaction, go for it.

                  I totally agree, but I know that right now, if I ate that much fruit my weight loss would stall, and I really, really need to lose weight. There are spells where I'll eat all I want, but on the whole I find I just need to be careful.

                  If I didn't have to lose weight, I probably wouldn't worry about fruit at all, as long as they were a balanced part of my diet and not central to it.
                  Fighting fibromyalgia and chronic myofascial pain since 2002.

                  Big Fat Fiasco

                  Our bodies crave real food. We remain hungry as long as we refuse to eat real food, no matter how much junk we stuff into our stomachs. ~J. Stanton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tarek View Post
                    Fruits are definitely not just "sugar bags." blah blah blah straw argument deleted blah blah read too much taubes and lustig blah blah the biochemical processes you say I must have been thinking of must be wrong, whatever they were according to the argument you just made up blah blah

                    Look, Sugar is sugar. It hits the intestinal tract as sugar and is metabolized as sugar. But you are right, fruits are not just sugar bags. You mentioned mangos so I looked it up:

                    One cup of sliced mangos (165g):
                    Weight of sugars: 24.4g
                    Weight of water: 135g
                    Weight of other:5.5g

                    As it turns out, they are bags of sugar and WATER. Stand corrected, guess its ok to drink fruit juices now
                    EDIT: better yet, turn it into a fizzy drink sold by our favorite beverage companies, maybe with caffeine added

                    Fortunately thats only 107 calories.
                    Last edited by wildwabbit; 05-23-2011, 09:23 PM.

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                    • #11
                      And what do we call elements of food that are NOT macronutrients? That's right -- MICROnutrients. These constitute a very minute fraction of the weight of a food (probably somewhere in that ambiguous "weight of other" category you listed), but play a very important role in human nutrition. Looks like you left out the following:

                      Vitamin A -1262 IU
                      Vitamin C - 45.7 mg
                      Vitamin E (Alpha Tocopherol) - 1.8 mg
                      Vitamin K - 6.9 mcg
                      Thiamin -0.1 mg
                      Riboflavin - 0.1 mg
                      Vitamin B3 - 1.0 mg
                      Vitamin B6 - 0.2 mg
                      Folate -23.1 mcg
                      Pantothenic Acid - 0.3 mg
                      Choline - 12.5 mg
                      Calcium - 16.5 mg
                      Magnesium -14.8 mg
                      Phosphorus - 18.2 mg
                      Potassium -257 mg
                      Selenium -1.0 mcg
                      Total Omega-3 fatty acids - 61.1 mg

                      Is mango the healthiest food in the world? No. Is it the best source of micronutrients? No. Is it a whole, unprocessed food with a decent micronutrient profile? Yes. Eat one or two without guilt and move on with life.

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                      • #12
                        Left all that out for a reason: the sugar is more damaging than the micros are beneficial.
                        I can get just a good a mix of micros eating the equivalent cooked weight in steak. Plus getting the fatty acids and protein too. And no sugar
                        (btw I absolutely love mango, and I tended to eat it overseas at the source where it is 100 times better tasting. I miss it...and yes will probably cheat a little next time I am there...)

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by wildwabbit View Post
                          Left all that out for a reason: the sugar is more damaging than the micros are beneficial.
                          I can get just a good a mix of micros eating the equivalent cooked weight in steak. Plus getting the fatty acids and protein too. And no sugar
                          (btw I absolutely love mango, and I tended to eat it overseas at the source where it is 100 times better tasting. I miss it...and yes will probably cheat a little next time I am there...)
                          When it comes to micros, beef liver (or any animal's liver) wins every time.

                          I see fruits as "nature's candy", but with added vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, so that you won't feel guilty. On the other hand, there is nothing in it that you can't get from animal product or veggies with equal or greater qualities minus the sugar.

                          I am enjoying fruits now since the warmer weather is here (I don't have any weight problem, diabetes, etc), but I am not eating them because there is anything "magical" about them.........
                          Last edited by Zed; 05-23-2011, 10:28 PM.

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                          • #14
                            I brought this up a couple days ago. I am limiting if not eliminating veggies to experiment with the bloating. It's a little misleading because, according to definition, cucumbers, tomatoes, avocado are all fruits. I'm still eating those but no other fruits and no other veggies. Experimenting for a couple weeks.

                            We'll see what happens.

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                            • #15
                              What veggies are considered starchy veggies? apart from sweet potato/yams (although they're officially a grain),yuca

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