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Are legumes healthier than fruit, nuts and potatoes?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Bodhi View Post
    Bananas are too high in carbs. Banana = 22 carbs, orange = 11 carbs. Bananas are too high in potassium. .

    Legumes contain incomplete proteins.
    You look at nutrition differently then I. I ALWAYS compare a food to a food based on the same number of calories. When you compare 100 calories of an orange and 100 calories of a banana, the orange has a hell of a lot more sugar. Its not fair to compare one orange vs one banana. They all come in different sizes. Its also not fair to compare it by weight. Some foods have more water than others which in this case seems to be the only difference. The orange has a lot more water than the banana.

    Do you see where I am coming from? When you do this then the nutrition is more comparable. The banana wins. Not by much, but it wins. I enjoy bananas more too. They are one of the few perfect fruits for smoothies.

    And what do you mean bananas are too high on potassium? I am guessing you are joking? Lol.

    Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I think the ultimate question this thread should ask is: "If we are going to purposely eat carbohydrates at times, and there are reasons why we should intermittently, which carbs should we consume?"

    Are beans a worse choice than yams? Than white rice? Than white potatoes? Than fruit sugar? If we're going to consume carbs, they may not be that bad of a choice on occasion.
    +1

    You said this perfectly. Thank you. People disregard legumes just because they are not paleo. I used to be this way but I now could careless. I live in the modern world. I have a refrigerator, a MAC, iPad, etc. I am more primal and becoming more primal then anyone else in the world. Its more than diet, much more. To me its about living more minimally, getting the most out of life, etc. I am not trying to convince anyone to eat legumes. I am simply curious about them. They may be a better option than most fruits, white potatoes, white rice, etc as a carbohydrate. Are they better than steak? Eggs? Bacon? No. Far from it.

    Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
    if you prepare beans correctly, you should be fine eating them. i would say a fair amount of people would do better with beans than dairy, if they didnt mentally give into the dogma surrounding them so are left unwilling to try on their own. i know for myself, with the cost of food, i have been considering preparing a crockpot of beans with ground meat and eating on it all week...i cant think of a better money saving tactic. it would also be very 'unrewarding' and im pretty sure youd just simply eat when hungry and stop when youre full.

    i dunno, the only bean i like is a chickpea i cant stand the much bite of every other bean
    +1

    Perfectly said again. People avoid beans simply because they are not paleo. Once you educate yourself like I have then you become more open minded and are willing to explore. I have had plenty of people ask me about green beans and sugar snap peas. They are so incredibly relived when I told them they are completely fine. They simply thought they were bad because they were not paleo.

    If you don't have time to educate yourself then sticking to the guidelines as close as possible is probably the best thing to do. But, I sure hope that person listens to their body and is willing to experiment a bit. And hopefully they will educate themseleves as much as possible.

    For those who do I recommend these 3 books in order:

    1. Primal Blueprint
    2. Why We Get Fat
    3. Cereal Killer

    The best DVD is Fat Head.
    Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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    • #32
      I have a question because the legumes I see people referencing here are mainly large beans and peanuts but what about peas and grean beans? I see them in the PB cookbooks but they're legumes as well, are they considered more ok since you can eat them raw?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by theholla View Post
        I had cut out legumes for my first couple months on the PB. I eventually decided to experiment with reintroducing them in small quantities (maybe a cup a week or so), and haven't had any problems. I decided to do so because the lectin activity of properly cooked beans is undetectable, and they don't contain any more phytic acid than Primal-approved foods like nuts. Also, my chili recipe just wasn't as good without them.

        Ultimately, I still don't think that beans should be used as a dietary staple, but I'm not convinced that they are necessarily harmful in small quantities if you tolerate them well.
        +1

        I hope more people become open minded.

        Again, I have zero reason to convince anyone to eat beans. I may never eat prepare them myself. I am here to convince others to try new things. To get out the religion deal. Some people claim primal is a cult or religion. My family got this impression during the first few months of me going primal. I have backed off and now they understand fully that its a lifestyle.

        Legumes are cheap and provide nutrition. When compared 100 calories vs 100 calories the nutrition is comparable to fruit. They have more protein and less carbs. Half of the carb content is fiber. If you get enough starch and sugar then the fact that it has this much fiber is a plus. Too much could be bad but then one can just enjoy more meat! Legumes have lectins but its less than nuts. At least the phytic acid content is. Also, it does not have as much omega 6 as nuts.

        Do whatever floats your boat. Just learn to become more open minded. I'll never consume grains because I have zero desire. Legumes are an option down the road. When I eat at Chipotle next time I may ask if they can sub beans for rice. Its free calories that way. If my body handles them just fine, then why not do this?
        Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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        • #34
          I've experimented a long time with this.

          With grains and gluten out of the question (dairy for me too), I always wondered why couldn't I use some legumes, tubers and rice for my carb sources? It all boils down to what works for you, I have learnt that my body prefers to run on fat all day long so I don't feed it many carbs, post-workout I'll do a heavy load of sweet potatoes, wild rice or lentils (in that order of preference) and have no problems at all. When I used to carb load on bread, pasta or even white rice I would feel bloated and plain "crap" for the rest of the day and the day after. With tubers, legumes or wild rice I get my glycogen levels back in place and feel just fine!

          Just my 0.02.
          My Blog

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          • #35
            ha ha the comparison of beans & fruit made me automatically think of the "Magical Fruit" little song.

            I've already eaten enough beans for a lifetime. I definitely don't miss beans. I don't really care what the nutrition of them is, I hate the bloat.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
              I stated that wrong. Our body may need Vitamin C but its not really required in our diets. Or, its simply incredibly easy to get and NO ONE should worry about how much they are getting as long as they are consuming some veggie or fruit. Even those who don't probably should not worry. I remember reading about Vitamin C Why We Get Fat and thought I read that we don't really have a dietary requirement of Vitamin C. I could be wrong.
              I misread what you meant by 'it' originally.

              On vitamin C: there's a minimum level necessary to avoid severe deficiency (~100 mg). But the question is, what's the amount necessary for optimal health? Linus Pauling would say multigram quantities daily. I'd wager a guess that it's like more than is necessary to avoid deficiency disease, but less than mutli-gram quantities. I agree it's not hard to give probably 3-4 times the RDA on a vegetable rich diet.

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              • #37
                And what do you mean bananas are too high on potassium? I am guessing you are joking? Lol.
                Only sort of...ever know of someone who eats a lot of bananas and still gets muscle cramps. I do. They have screwed up their mineral balance with too much potassium. Heart patients also have to be careful with their potassium balance.

                And it is completely fair to compare 1 banana to 1 orange. (besides the world ain't fair always). The human body is about 80% water...so you need more water than you do starch.
                Last edited by Bodhi; 05-23-2011, 11:23 AM. Reason: just for the hell of it.
                ...how do you look, feel, and perform? -- Robb Wolf

                My Blog.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by albert88en View Post
                  I've experimented a long time with this.

                  With grains and gluten out of the question (dairy for me too), I always wondered why couldn't I use some legumes, tubers and rice for my carb sources? It all boils down to what works for you, I have learnt that my body prefers to run on fat all day long so I don't feed it many carbs, post-workout I'll do a heavy load of sweet potatoes, wild rice or lentils (in that order of preference) and have no problems at all. When I used to carb load on bread, pasta or even white rice I would feel bloated and plain "crap" for the rest of the day and the day after. With tubers, legumes or wild rice I get my glycogen levels back in place and feel just fine!

                  Just my 0.02.
                  +1

                  Originally posted by Bodhi View Post
                  Only sort of...ever know of someone who eats a lot of bananas and still gets muscle cramps. I do. They have screwed up their mineral balance with too much potassium. Heart patients also have to be careful with their potassium balance.

                  And it is completely fair to compare 1 banana to 1 orange. (besides the world ain't fair always). The human body is about 80% water...so you need more water than you do starch.
                  I don't recommend more than 1 banana per day. I eat more today because I am creating smoothie recipes for my eBook. I rarely consume a banana unless its in a smoothie.

                  When you are comparing the nutrition of 2 foods its best to compare them with the same amount of calories.
                  Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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                  • #39
                    Various points to things I have read in the thread:

                    1/ Dairy could be called better than legumes as the latter contain toxins meant to avoid their consumption, whilst the former is simply no longer digestible for some people due to a biological quirk (ie loss of lactase after childhood); unless you are lactose intolerant I'd say that dairy is in balance good, whilst legumes are on balance toxic

                    2/ Bananas are comparatively good - the potassium content is a positive (if you dont eat too many of them) and they have a good fructose/total sugar ratio. of course depends whether you compare 100g of apples vs 100g of bananas, or 100cals of apples vs 100cals of bananas. IMHO the latter comparison is more useful

                    3/ Fructose is not bad per-se - it just overloads the liver in the quantities consumed. The liver can very well tolerate say 10g of fructose with a meal, and it especially allows to very quickly rebuild depleted glycogen stores in the liver

                    4/ Smoothies are bad, like all fruit juices. The smoothing process breaks down the cell structures and therefore everything is absorbed much more quickly, so the liver is more likely to be shocked (what matters is the amount of fructose per minute that arrives there). also, it is difficult to make a smoothie that would contain reasonably small amounts of fruit. I'd say the minimum amount of sugar you'd get from a (0.3l) smoothie is 25g, out of which 10-20g will be fructose effectively. This is too much, especially if it is hitting the liver all at once. Fruits are meant to be eaten, not drunk!
                    http://thorfalk.wordpress.com

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
                      The interesting thing is that sweet potatoes really give me a rumble. I remove the skins, cut off the ends and I'm basically left with just very soft starch, and it still gives me all kinds of intestinal gurgling. I don't react nearly as badly to a can of black beans, yet sweet potatoes are Primal approved and legumes aren't. My body tells me that it likes white rice and beans far better than sweet potatoes, but I rarely eat white rice and beans and chow down on a dozen sweet potatoes in a carb refeed. Maybe I'm doing it wrong for my body?
                      Sweet potatoes do the same to me. Pre-primal I ate a lot of beans (cheap and filling) and never did I have the gastric "distress" that I have with one medium sweet potato!

                      I've often looked at my stockpile of beans (yes I still hung onto them) and wondered "what would it hurt". I also have some wild rice that I hung onto.

                      Maybe I will have to experiment. My weight loss has been non-existent for the last several months, maybe my body wants a different kind of starch?

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Thor Falk View Post
                        4/ Smoothies are bad, like all fruit juices. The smoothing process breaks down the cell structures and therefore everything is absorbed much more quickly, so the liver is more likely to be shocked (what matters is the amount of fructose per minute that arrives there). also, it is difficult to make a smoothie that would contain reasonably small amounts of fruit. I'd say the minimum amount of sugar you'd get from a (0.3l) smoothie is 25g, out of which 10-20g will be fructose effectively. This is too much, especially if it is hitting the liver all at once. Fruits are meant to be eaten, not drunk!
                        I loved your first 3 points but this one bothered me. I am in the middle of creating a very special primal smoothie eBook. Its on pre-order for $6 in case anyone wants to order it. Its due out June 6 with a $9 final sale price. I'll keep updated it till it has 500 recipes.



                        Not a single one of my recipes contains 25 grams of sugar. Some contain just a few grams of carbs. Its difficult to make a great tasting smoothie that is low carb but I have managed to do it successfully for a long ass time. I love smoothies and have been enjoying them on a regular basis for about 5 years now. I now make them primal and 80% or more contain less than 25 grams of sugar. My smoothies will not effect your insulin in any way, shape, or form. They are only beneficial. Will I have a few recipes with a lot more sugar? You bet. I may experiment with a carb refeeding day. I'll enjoy my high carb smoothies on these days if I decide to do this.

                        But, thanks for bringing this up. My guess is that a lot of people are dismissing my eBook because they are worried it may be high carb recipes when in fact the exact opposite is true. I need to explain my eBook better. When its out 2 weeks from today people will of course realize what it is and thus it will begin spreading like crazy. The value of what I am creating is unheard of.
                        Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Elspeth View Post
                          Sweet potatoes do the same to me. Pre-primal I ate a lot of beans (cheap and filling) and never did I have the gastric "distress" that I have with one medium sweet potato!

                          I've often looked at my stockpile of beans (yes I still hung onto them) and wondered "what would it hurt". I also have some wild rice that I hung onto.

                          Maybe I will have to experiment. My weight loss has been non-existent for the last several months, maybe my body wants a different kind of starch?
                          Only you know what is best for you. Try it yourself and pay special attention.

                          n=1
                          Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

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                          • #43
                            While we discuss fruit and fructose, I have to ask: Does anyone have studies that look at the impact of fruits (and the fructose in fruits) on health markers? It seems that people put fruit fructose in the same category as fructose in HFCS. I'm not sure if that's fair. Does fructose really act the same way in the body with all those vitamins, minerals, and enzymes? (I haven't been successful with finding any of these studies myself, most look at added fructose, in my opinion.)

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Elspeth View Post
                              Sweet potatoes do the same to me. Pre-primal I ate a lot of beans (cheap and filling) and never did I have the gastric "distress" that I have with one medium sweet potato!

                              I've often looked at my stockpile of beans (yes I still hung onto them) and wondered "what would it hurt". I also have some wild rice that I hung onto.

                              Maybe I will have to experiment. My weight loss has been non-existent for the last several months, maybe my body wants a different kind of starch?
                              That may very well be the case. I ate 3 sweet potatoes with lunch, but after the intestinal experience I had a few hours ago, I think I'm going to skip sweet potatoes for dinner and eat fish and white rice. I had white rice on Saturday and last Wednesday in very small quantities, but I didn't have so much as a gas bubble or a gurgle. I'm doing HIIT tonight, so I'll be more than able to accommodate the starch.

                              Tonight feels like a fish taco with fresh pico de gallo kind of night. Well, minus the taco of course. It's funny. I'm an Italian that grew up eating bread every day and pasta multiple times a week, and I miss flour tortillas and corn tortilla chips more than spaghetti. Mark my words, if I ever get that six pack I'm after, I'm treating myself with a big Qdoba burrito with the shell AND black and pinto beans AND an order of chips and salsa. Screw it, I'll take a glucosamine pill!
                              Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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                              • #45
                                Wow - how do you make a smoothie with so few carbs? I am intrigued!

                                Even on carb-refeed days I'd probably try not to go over say 10g of fructose per shake though (and possibly even stay below that number) just to be on the safe side.
                                http://thorfalk.wordpress.com

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