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  • When 80/20 veers into 50/50 territory...

    I have abused my 20% and the result is that in my first month of Primal I ended up being only Primal 50% of the time. Which isn't so great because if you're doing high-fat on Primal and then you cheat with high carbs...I didn't gain or lose.

    My situation: I really want to get very fit, I'm at 25% BF and I want 15%. I am average right now and I want to lose a lot of fat.
    I've been reading threads about women on PB trying to get to their ideal BF% and how this can only be attained by losing the cheats, and trying to be more like cold turkey or 90/10, 95/5.

    What do you think? Or will this take me into a binge-starve cycle after restricting? Is cold turkey necessary if I can't seem to stay on the Primal horse long enough to see results?

    BTW: have history of bulimia/anorexia. Recovered over 1 year ago and was being too nice to myself on 80/20, e.g. I had honey-berry french toast the other day, then the next day a piece of pie and popcorn. Etc.

  • #2
    If you want to be primal, maybe you could just start by saying to yourself "this 'obviously' grain in it, this 'obviously' has sugar in it so I'm not going to eat it". Keep it simple.

    From what I've seen, you like to beat yourself up over things. Quit that

    And the reason I put 'obviously' in quotes is that I do 95/5 and it's working.
    Newcomers: If you haven't read the book, at least read this thread ... and all the links!
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread17722.html

    F/49/5'4"
    Jan. 1, 2011: 186.6 lbs PBSW Mar. 1, 2011: 175.8 lbs
    CW: 146.8 lbs
    GW 140 lbs
    A proud member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals

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    • #3
      Originally posted by belinda View Post
      If you want to be primal, maybe you could just start by saying to yourself "this 'obviously' grain in it, this 'obviously' has sugar in it so I'm not going to eat it". Keep it simple.

      From what I've seen, you like to beat yourself up over things. Quit that

      And the reason I put 'obviously' in quotes is that I do 95/5 and it's working.
      Thing is - when it's not french toast/pie things like that, I create my own goodies. I LOVE baking and primal baking is my biggest downfall. I make a mean nut oatmeal, almond banana cinnamon pancakes, etc. All gluten/sugar-free, and I count the carb grams. But then bad stuff happens cos I just think oh it's OK it's primal it's HEALTHY but because it's primal, the calories are more from fat than carbs so it's supeeer calorically dense. And I end up overeating. E.g. today was a PERFECT day except: I ate 4 of my almond choc chip cookies - 500 extra calories, 40g extra of carbs.
      I can easily abstain from the french toast/pie...but what about primal goodies? And if you're 95/5, how often would you indulge in such things?
      Can you give an example of 95/5?

      Well right now I'm just being honest. I messed up a lot and didn't stress and enjoyed it all, but now I'd really like to see results.

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      • #4
        I'm with ya! Its just about not keeping anything in the house to bake with... not buying dark chocolate... not buying wine etc etc.

        Were you going to do whole30? that should establish some good habits wrt baking & over eating (although, I managed to over eat with fruit a fair bit on whole 30... do a fruit free whole30!)

        I think you should give yourself 30 days all primal, no calorie counting, no tracking just making sure its primal... cut the sweeteners completely though. Then... after you are fat adapted, add in some IF and see if that gets you to your goal. And not crazy starving yourself IF... just follow your hunger cues. Skip breakfast if you aren't hungry, or skip lunch... nothing intentional, nothing planned. Do lots of LLC and find some ways to play.

        Keep up the yoga. And stop worrying. I know its hard... I obsess much like you do. I'm working through it. lol.
        Robin
        ~primal mama to 3~

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        • #5
          Originally posted by nocturnalmama View Post
          I'm with ya! Its just about not keeping anything in the house to bake with... not buying dark chocolate... not buying wine etc etc.

          Were you going to do whole30? that should establish some good habits wrt baking & over eating (although, I managed to over eat with fruit a fair bit on whole 30... do a fruit free whole30!)

          I think you should give yourself 30 days all primal, no calorie counting, no tracking just making sure its primal... cut the sweeteners completely though. Then... after you are fat adapted, add in some IF and see if that gets you to your goal. And not crazy starving yourself IF... just follow your hunger cues. Skip breakfast if you aren't hungry, or skip lunch... nothing intentional, nothing planned. Do lots of LLC and find some ways to play.

          Keep up the yoga. And stop worrying. I know its hard... I obsess much like you do. I'm working through it. lol.
          Whole30 is too strict for me...I'll end up binging if I come off it, I know myself.
          I just want to be strict in a moderate way - something I can keep up for months at a time. I'm going to just eat Primally 90/10 I guess. My only cheats will be some primal-approved cheeses (feta, mozzarella di buffala, aged parmesan, mascarpone), dark chocolate, and a bit of cream in my scrambled eggs. Fruits will be limited to berries. Nuts no more than 1 handful every other day. Once I get under 80g carbs/day under control, I'll do a carb refeed every 2 weeks.
          Does what I outlined sound like 90/10?

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          • #6
            Thoughts... instead of aiming for a body fat % number, why not aim for things you want to be able to do? For me it was unambitious stuff like 'sprint for the bus', for you it might be a bit more ambitious... but decide what you want to be physically capable of, and your body will work out the percentages for you. It's handy like that .

            15% body fat is right at the bottom of the range for athletes according to Wikipedia. And if you follow any sports or athletics, you pretty soon get the impression that these people are living on the edge, and very prone to injury and physical breakdown. Fair enough if it's what they want... but is it what you want?

            You talk about 'being nice to yourself' by eating grainy sugary stuff. I know the feeling. There are definitely times I want to 'be nice to myself' by eating something sweet, and lecturing myself about how I'm actually treating myself like a toxic waste dump and this is not 'nice' doesn't really help. What does help is having foods to hand that are treats, that I love, and that are Primal. Or at least better than the grainy sugary crap. Then it's actually possible to lose your taste for the crap and not want it, which makes life so much easier.

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            • #7
              The only "treat" I eat when I want to lose fat is 20 g of 70% (or higher) dark chocolate.

              Otherwise, it's meat, low carb vegetables (mostly greens) and very small amounts of dairy (like 2 tbsp of cream a day). No fruit. No Primal baked goods.

              You've never fully kicked your sugar addiction, which is why the treats keep creeping back in and sabotaging you. BTDT! It can take some time, so be gentle and patient with yourself.
              Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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              • #8
                Don't feel bad, I'm the same way. Start off great, feel great...then 80/20 becomes more like 70/30...60/40...20/80, LOL!!

                I just started a Whole30 challenge with a slight tweak to allow some dairy. I figure if I can stick with the program for 30 days it will help overcome the cravings and possibly teach me some will power. Plus its only 30 days with no big holiday or trip to encourage me to nibble on things I shouldn't.

                Since you love to bake, is there any way you can bake and give the end results away to neighbors or co-workers without having some yourself? That way you get the fun but you get the temptation out of the house as well.

                Edit: Oops, someone beat me to suggestion Whole30.
                See what I'm up to: The Primal Gardener

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Hilary View Post
                  Thoughts... instead of aiming for a body fat % number, why not aim for things you want to be able to do? For me it was unambitious stuff like 'sprint for the bus', for you it might be a bit more ambitious... but decide what you want to be physically capable of, and your body will work out the percentages for you. It's handy like that .

                  15% body fat is right at the bottom of the range for athletes according to Wikipedia. And if you follow any sports or athletics, you pretty soon get the impression that these people are living on the edge, and very prone to injury and physical breakdown. Fair enough if it's what they want... but is it what you want?

                  You talk about 'being nice to yourself' by eating grainy sugary stuff. I know the feeling. There are definitely times I want to 'be nice to myself' by eating something sweet, and lecturing myself about how I'm actually treating myself like a toxic waste dump and this is not 'nice' doesn't really help. What does help is having foods to hand that are treats, that I love, and that are Primal. Or at least better than the grainy sugary crap. Then it's actually possible to lose your taste for the crap and not want it, which makes life so much easier.
                  That's a good idea, changing my mindset. Haha I've shifted from a goal weight to a goal BF%. Well, I want to be able to do certain yoga poses, but those don't have much to do with fat loss as they have to do with practicing 6x/week with utter concentration (impossible now with exams/prom/graduation/senior trip). Other than that, I don't know? A 5-minute mile?
                  What I really want is to have an ass I'm not ashamed of, no lovehandles, a flat belly, and smaller thighs.

                  Yeah maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the french toast/pie crap cos that was just this weekend. Normally my mistakes are Primal baked goods or Primalized recipes...things that ARE healthy in moderation. But when you're having a SORT of primal cheesecake and you eat half of it in a day...soemthing's up, you know?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                    The only "treat" I eat when I want to lose fat is 20 g of 70% (or higher) dark chocolate.

                    Otherwise, it's meat, low carb vegetables (mostly greens) and very small amounts of dairy (like 2 tbsp of cream a day). No fruit. No Primal baked goods.

                    You've never fully kicked your sugar addiction, which is why the treats keep creeping back in and sabotaging you. BTDT! It can take some time, so be gentle and patient with yourself.
                    You're right. I'll have 1 tbsp cream/day, 2 squares 70-85% chocolate, and the odd 2 oz of blueberries. As for cheese, it's usually just a small serving in a big ass salad, so I'm not worried about dairy so much.
                    I need to kick the sugar addiction or I'll never see something I love in the mirror

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                    • #11
                      Once I get under 80g carbs/day under control, I'll do a carb refeed every 2 weeks.
                      I doubt you'll need to do this, since you have so little fat to lose and I think it will derail your attempts to lose the sugar addiction.

                      I think carb refeeds work well for most men, but for many women they are a recipe for disaster. Better to just up your overall calories for a day or two, without increasing your carbs.
                      Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                        I doubt you'll need to do this, since you have so little fat to lose and I think it will derail your attempts to lose the sugar addiction.

                        I think carb refeeds work well for most men, but for many women they are a recipe for disaster. Better to just up your overall calories for a day or two, without increasing your carbs.
                        OK thanks for the heads-up! Shan't do.

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                        • #13
                          I need to kick the sugar addiction or I'll never see something I love in the mirror
                          You need to love what you see in the mirror NOW and kicking the sugar addiction will be much easier. Trust me--body hate never gets us anywhere (except back in the cookie jar!)
                          Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
                          Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
                          Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                            You need to love what you see in the mirror NOW and kicking the sugar addiction will be much easier. Trust me--body hate never gets us anywhere (except back in the cookie jar!)
                            Oh I don't hate my body anymore, I just like it. But I wanna love it. I want a flat stomach and a body that will look great in lingerie. Like Victoria's Secret-great. Haha yes I have high standards. If I get anywhere near to looking like anything even mildly resembling a Victoria's Secret model, I will have succeeded. Hehehe.

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                            • #15
                              I've kept my 95/5 diet very simple. For me, it's a lot easier to keep track of the macros of a very simple diet and not be tempted by lots of things that I 'could' be eating. You might find my diet boring but until I get closer to my weight loss goal, I'm committed to it. I'm almost 49 years old and the time I have left to develop a decent, healthy, body is rapidly declining.

                              95/5 WOE (average day)
                              breakfast: 2 eggs scrambled in a teaspoon of butter and 3 slices of bacon
                              lunch: 2 chicken thighs or equivalent protein; 2 cups of mixed greens; 1/2 an avocado; oil & vinegar dressing (maybe different veggies if I have them available or supper leftovers)
                              mid-afternoon: half an apple and a tablespoon of almond butter
                              supper: beef, chicken, pork or fish (about 6 oz); 1-2 cups of steamed broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, squash, 1/2 a sweet potato, or more salad
                              dessert: 1/2 cup of frozen berries and 1/2 cup coconut milk, 1-2 tablespoons of creamed coconut

                              Snack: 1 square of dark chocolate or 1/8 cup of nuts

                              On Saturday mornings, I have Rivvin's bread (almond & flax meal) or a primal waffle with 2 over easy eggs (skip the bacon if I do this). But that's as close as I've come to a baked good in the last 10 weeks.

                              My 5% includes if I come home from work and DH has made something for supper that's not 100% primal and I don't have another option handy, or condiments (like ketchup, mustard, soy sauce, etc.).

                              My 5% does not include things like heavy cream or primal cheesecake. I'm going to try to hold out on those until I get to maintenance weight.

                              I've never had much in the way of willpower, or an off switch when it came to eating - I could go, and go, and go - but this time around, I just told myself I had to do it, and it stuck.

                              I do about 40 minutes of easy exercise/walking a day and I'm losing, on average, between 1 and 1.5 lbs a week.
                              Newcomers: If you haven't read the book, at least read this thread ... and all the links!
                              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread17722.html

                              F/49/5'4"
                              Jan. 1, 2011: 186.6 lbs PBSW Mar. 1, 2011: 175.8 lbs
                              CW: 146.8 lbs
                              GW 140 lbs
                              A proud member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals

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