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Yes to the consumption of grains or just a primal propaganda?

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  • Yes to the consumption of grains or just a primal propaganda?

    Hey I just read those article that supports that paleo men and especially spartans ate grains and we should, too or that the evidence we have is too little to convince ourselves that paleo men didn't eat grains,beans and legums. Here's the links:
    Code:
    http://thespartandiet.blogspot.com/2010/10/its-official-grains-were-part-of.html
    Code:
    http://www.leighpeele.com/the-paleo-diet-fad-religion-or-solution?ref=nf#
    What's your opinion on this subject?
    Last edited by greekoo; 05-08-2011, 12:21 AM.

  • #2
    Spartans were agricultural. So were many at the same time. What's your point?
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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    • #3
      There are also people that eat poop, doesn't make it GOOD for you.
      I'm a paleo foodie, come check out my recipes: http://strangekitty.ca/

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      • #4
        Spartans were after the Mesopotamian era of domestication and cereal grain agriculture. They are nearly the same as pre 18th century US agriculture, better than S.A.D. but not nearly what primal is.

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        • #5
          Last I checked the Spartans weren't in the paleolithic era. Regardless, the science, and more importantly, my body tells me the grains are bad. But feel free to conduct a self experiment and let us know your findings.
          My blog: My Primal Adventure

          "I've come here to chew bubble gum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubble gum."

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          • #6
            The source articles cited simply push back earliest use of grains - but by up to 105000 years ago. I don't have a problem with this as I've read 'Clan of the Cave Bear' (lol) but I've also looked at some of the research and early people collecting grains where they naturally occurred is not a problem for me.

            What isn't looked at is the difference between evolutionary advantage and health. Just because some humans used grains, which might have allowed them to survive, and thus reproduce, in no way means that these people were healthier than other groups of humans. In any case, our dentition and digestive system support theories of meat eating (and cooking) over grains, and investigation of the content of grains, and our digestive capability, again support theories of lack of evolutionary means to process them.

            The spartan diet looks a lot like WAPF, seems to have been stimulated by the movie and emphasises clean food and strength. It's kind of like a clayton's paleo.
            Evolutionary. Ideology that fits biology

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            • #7
              the grains of today are NOT the same as the grains of hundreds of years ago..... whereas even 100 years ago....although not 'primal', wheat gluten, specifically, could have been tolerated.. today, the body isn't recognizing what it has morphed into due to man's intervention...and gluten intolerances are on the rise.....it's pretty sad what man has done to our food supply...watched a documentary last night on Monsanto...it sends chills up my spine what this company has done and will continue to do.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chia View Post
                the grains of today are NOT the same as the grains of hundreds of years ago..... whereas even 100 years ago....although not 'primal', wheat gluten, specifically, could have been tolerated.. today, the body isn't recognizing what it has morphed into due to man's intervention...and gluten intolerances are on the rise.....it's pretty sad what man has done to our food supply...watched a documentary last night on Monsanto...it sends chills up my spine what this company has done and will continue to do.
                Quite. Something like modern cheap wholegrain bread bears no resemblance to what bread was in those days.
                Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                Harold Whitman

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                • #9
                  Wow, there is so much logic fail in this thread it's hard to know where to begin. First of all, ancient wheat had gluten and wheat germ agglutinin in spades, and certainly caused the same issues in the distant past as it does now. Archaeogy has proven this. Non GMO wheat, soy, etc. is to be avoided. Monsanto is a separate and tragic issue. Second, the Spartans have nothing whatsoever to do with Paleo anything - and why would anyone think they would? Third, who cares if anyone ate grains in the past? They are not good for you, and we are not designed to handle them very well. That is all. Sheesh.
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                  • #10
                    Kurt Harris said it best.. because something is tolerated doesnt mean its optimal. Why try to include something that "may not be that bad" when clearly there are better choices?

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                    • #11
                      I feel like the picture that pops up in peoples mind when they hear Spartan is the air brushed (and/or just generally ripped) guys from 300. Let's get an army of paleo people together and let's see who's boss... oh wait the Mongolian warriors under Genghis Khan were pretty paleo (they ate dairy i think) and they destroyed. Thats the only paleo army (large armies) i can think of (not very good at thinking though) and considering how many grain fed armies there were, by percentage stats, paleo armies were 100% successful. Lol... ok i had my nerd fantasy army matchup today im good.

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                      • #12
                        Well...even if there were grains way back then, I don't care either way.

                        FOR ME

                        -grains are detrimental to my fat-loss goals, i have trouble controlling their consumption
                        -grains are not as good a source of carbs IMO, compared to sweet-potatoes (bread leaves me hungry and wanting more)
                        -when I eat a sweet-potaote, I feel like I kicking down doors instead of opening them. FOr some reason, maybe placebo, I don't get like that after a bagel...haha
                        (the above may be due to me going VLC and feeling like shit for a while, compared to how I feel with carbs)
                        -i've heard the gluten in grains can cause a number a problems, including depression, which I have plenty of.
                        -when I do eat grains (alot of grains, average american consumption) I get a belly ache and have gas the whole day the next day.
                        -i feel they increase my chances of coldsores popping up x10. And coldsores fucking SUCK

                        I feel like i run better on sweet-potatoes anyway.

                        I do think that there's too much carb phobia in the community. If your sedentary then going LC should be no problem. But active people and athletes absolutly need carbs. I'm tired of being bullshitted with the "Low carb flu". Since i've upped my carbs i've felt great and have been seething with energy all day.

                        This all being said, I eat cake on holidays, I may have bread at resturaunts, sometimes i'll have a bit of what mom makes, and i'll NEVER give up pizza...ever...

                        I generally always opt for the non-grain based foods, but some grains here and there arent gonna kill ya. You think everyone that lived to be 100 avoided grains? My grandpa is very italian, he's got a beer belly but he's in his 70's and going strong. Not a sinlge health issue. And he insists on having bread with every meal. Meals like pasta and meatballs.

                        Now is this optimal? maybe not. Idgaf about paleo times, they would've eaten anything, I care about the studies that show grains have anti-nutrients and all kinda of nasties that might interfere with me feeling good and healthy. Unfortunaly for me I have to rely on other peoples articles, I can't decipher the actual studies for shit. So weather i'm reading biased or cherry picked info from possilby bad studies, idk.

                        Going to be majoring in biology, hopefully i'll learn how to read the actual research papers so i can decide for myself.

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                        • #13
                          Title of Monsanto documentary?

                          What was the documentary called?

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                          • #14
                            It does not follow that because Spartans ate grains and were badasses (although I agree with the sentiment that they probably didn't look like the dudes in 300) that it was because of the grains and then the lack of grains would somehow be detrimental. This is the affirming-the-consequent fallacy, as is pretty much all poor quality nutritional reasoning.

                            Someone needs to demonstrate that a diet with a bunch of grains is healthier than a diet that replaces those grains with fruits, vegetables and tubers and maintains a relatively similar micronutrient intake. It has never been done except for possibly one paleo diet study that showed that more vegetables, fruits and meats was better than more grains but there were confounding factors.
                            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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