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Nuts are very good for heart health!

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  • #31
    1



    According to Eaten the most likely ratio of paleo man was 5:1. 1:1 is not feasible and just an exaccerated OCD.

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    • #32
      1



      Not wishing to get deeper into the quicksand, I'll just say this:


      1. bobby, you never said anything about consuming large does of fish oil with your nuts, uh, your almonds.


      2. The matter of the Israeli Jews and their diet is well documented.


      3. N-6 is n-6.


      4. As Jess and Erik say, and I did, it's in the HOW MUCH. Twenty five percent or the mythical average 2000 calories a day from nuts is a lot.


      5. Sean, I understand what you are saying, see #4.


      Oh, bobby, I really, really appreciate your presence here. You are a good researcher.

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      • #33
        1



        WOW

        Bags
        Primal Since 10/2009

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        • #34
          1



          I know. Wow.


          They're nuts. Just nuts. Take a handful and continue going about your day.


          ???


          It's not that difficult.

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          • #35
            1



            According to Stephan from Whole Health Source, serum AA production maxes out at 4% of calories from linoleic acid. Anything in excess of 4%, then, is harmless; the damage is already done. That's why studies on modern populations often show no harm from increasing Omega 6, because they're way past the 4%. If you drop linoleic acid to sub-4% of diet, you'll see improvements.

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            • #36
              1



              Doesn't make much sense, I have never read of a "harm" treshold above which not further harm occurs and velow which no harm occurs. That would be the first and only instance in whic such a weird thing would happen.

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              • #37
                1



                I think most dose-toxicity curves are S shaped. It is like filling a bucket with water, once it is full, you can't fill it anymore.

                It's grandma, but you can call me sir.

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                • #38
                  1



                  That 4% argument does not make any sense. What if you also ate 4% of omega 3's? Also, by this reasoning I could eat the same amount of O 6's, but if I eat more calories during the day it won't do as much damage. It just doesn't seem to make sense to me.

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                  • #39
                    1



                    This should clear things up: http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...rt-diseas.html

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                    • #40
                      1



                      Look at the blog, it is very convincing.


                      http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/05/eicosanoids-and-ischemic-heart-diseas.html


                      It basically says that the amount of n-6 in your tissue does not increase significantly with dietary increase above 4% (with no n-3 intake). It also says that increasing your n-3 intake decreases the amount of N-6 in your tissue.


                      http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/05/eicosanoids-and-ischemic-heart-disease.html


                      And this one says that the amount of n-6 in your tissue is directly proportional to your CHD mortality risk.


                      I think this is inline with your studies and we are in "violent agreement" except on what this means for nuts.

                      It's grandma, but you can call me sir.

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                      • #41
                        1



                        In those links I just see a whole lot of graphs without accompanying studies. I have no idea how these graphs were developed. If these links had the studies that went with them (presuming that there even were studies that went with them) I think I would take a closer look. I am just wondering how they got all of this data, because the test for omega 6 hufa in tissue is so uncommon that I wouldn't be surprised if these graphs were just estimated. Basically if they were just fabricated. To be honest, that one graph looks just as convincing as the 7 country study done by keys...and we know how that turned out.

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                        • #42
                          1



                          o-6=inflammatory

                          o-3=antiinflammatory

                          but nuts are probably the least of our problemmakers as it comes to o-6 consumption and their benefits could outweigh their negatives. What we should be conserned about are the main o-6 contributors- seedoils. if you have elliminated these then i think you can afford a few nuts

                          challenge yourself
                          i blog here http://theprimalwoman.blogspot.com/

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                          • #43
                            1



                            I do stay away from processed seed oils. As of right now the only oils I eat are olive oil on my steamed veggies and ghee when I am cooking eggs or meat. But to be honest I don't think that the link between heart disease and omega 6 is clear. As for those graphs, they would make you think that this ratio was the only important indicator for CHD when we know that is not the case. I would rather be ingesting corn oil than 200+ grams of highly refined carbs that most westerners ingest on a daily basis.

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                            • #44
                              1



                              I know this is rather cursory:

                              ]"2. Israeli Paradox


                              Have you heard of the Israeli Paradox, which is less known but may be is more important?


                              The Israeli Paradox is the fact that Jewish Israelis have very high rates of heart disease and diabetes in spite of a diet low in total fat, saturated fat, and high in polyunsaturated fats (the supposedly “good”fats). According to the current conception, polyunsaturated fats contained in vegetable seed oils are supposed to lower the risk of heart disease. Yet, high consumption of these oils doesn’t seem to have prevented the Israelis from dying from heart attacks.


                              Researchers suggest that the explanation for this paradox is Israel’s high intake of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids (mainly from soybean oil), the predominant essential fat in soybean, safflower, and corn oils.


                              Israel has one of the highest dietary polyunsaturated/saturated fat ratios in the world. The consumption of omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids is about 8% higher than in the USA, and 10-12% higher than in most European countries. In fact, Israeli Jews may be regarded as a population-based dietary experiment of the effect of a high omega-6 fats diet, a diet that until recently was widely recommended. Despite such national habits, there is paradoxically high prevalence of cardiovascular diseases, hypertension, type 2 diabetes and obesity[1]. There is also an increased cancer incidence and mortality rate, especially in women, compared with western countries. Thus, rather than being beneficial, high omega-6 fatty acids diet may have some long-term harmful effects.


                              Non-Jewish Israeli citizens have rates of heart disease and diabetes roughly half the Jewish rate. The non-Jews consume lots of olive oil (low in omega-6) rather than soybean oil."


                              1. Yam D, Eliraz A, Berry EM. Diet and disease–the Israeli paradox: possible dangers of a high omega-6 polyunsaturated fatty acid diet. Isr J Med Sci. 1996 Nov;32(11):1134-43. PubMed


                              http://www.homefitnessbody.com/blog/health-paradoxes-around-the-world/


                              Nine other health paradoxes there, too.


                              I think a fair assessment is that you can't avoid n-6 fatty acids, but you should as much as reasonably possible. For about the 43rd time mentioned here, all things (nuts) in moderation. Well, except nice, fatty meat!

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                              • #45
                                1



                                Speaking from a position of knowledge gained from the inside, I would suspect that Jewish Israeli health also has a lot to do with the very high carb diet, not just omega ratios etc.


                                Luckily, I'm not Israeli. But having to suddenly give up the gluten and dairy based food due to food intolerances served at celebratory meals (last week it was a bris) then it does reduce the available food somewhat. To fruit (a no no for me), salmon and some salad veg.

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