Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Dr. Cordain's Newest and Greatest Thoughts on Saturated Fat

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dr. Cordain's Newest and Greatest Thoughts on Saturated Fat

    I found this while reading the reviews of a new paleo book, The Everything Paleolithic Book. The following is a comment reply from Riley to the 3 star review from Sarah B.

    "Dr. Cordain has changed his position more than a little on the saturated fat issue over the past few years and with much research. The quote below is from Dr Cordain's 'Paleo Diet Q & A'.

    Saturated fatty acid intake and the risk of developing cardiovascular disease (CVD) is a topic with a lot of controversy. In recent years a wide body of research has suggested that increased consumption of certain saturated fatty acids (Lauric acid, myristic acid and palmitic acid) down-regulate LDL receptor and thereby increase LDL plasma levels, which has been associated to increased risk of CVD. On the other hand, stearic acid (a 18 carbon saturated fatty acid) has been shown to decrease LDL plasma levels. However, this view is too simplistic as there are several other factors contributing to CVD, such as smoking, exercise, trans-fatty acids, increased omega-6/omega-3 ratio, free-radicals, nutrient deficiency, homocysteine, alcohol intake and low-grade chronic inflammation among others.

    Moreover, some studies have suggested that there's not enough scientific data to support the view that increased total or LDL cholesterol is an independent risk factor for CVD, but rather oxidized LDL. Plaque production is mediated by oxidized LDL, not LDL. Oxidized LDL can produce shedding of the inner layer of the artery namely glycocalix. Oxidized LDL then infiltrates the intima of the artery. Oxidized LDL is eaten by macrophages, a process known as phagocytosis, causing macrophages to be transformed into foam cells which produce the fibrous cap.

    Once the fibrous cap has been produced we need to break it down in order to produce an ischemic event. Lectins and low-grade chronic inflammation are involved in the activation of matrix metalloproteinases which break down the fibrous cap.

    In summary, high total cholesterol or LDL levels do not increase CVD risk--rather oxidized LDL increases risk of CVD. To produce oxidized LDL requires the factors mentioned above. Hence, consumption of saturated fatty acids is not an issue if we control several other factors such as those mentioned.

    Dr. Cordain wrote a book chapter and published a paper (with our team member Pedro Bastos) where he shows that saturated fat consumption in ancient hunter-gatherer populations were usually 10-15% above the recommended 10% of energy from saturated fats, yet they were non-atherogenic.

    The bottom line is that we do not recommend cutting down saturated fatty acid intake, but decreasing high-glycemic load foods, vegetable oils, refined sugars, grains, legumes and dairy.

    Loren's opinion that saturated fats DO increase plaque in the arteries. However, Loren says, this only becomes very hazardous when saturated fats are eaten in combination with grains, beans, dairy, high-sugar foods or other foods that tend to increase inflammation. Cordain says the combination of saturated fats and inflammatory foods such as grains is a deadly formula for a heart attack."


    I think Dr. Cordain is right on. What do you think?
    Find me at aToadontheRoad.com. Cheers!

  • #2
    +1

    Comment


    • #3
      Is it just me or is this not anything new? I guess I don't know enough about Cordain, he was previously anti-saturated fat and now not so much? The whole "eat fat, don't eat grains/sugar/etc" isn't new at all though.
      I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

      Comment


      • #4
        Sounds good to me - from what I have been able to learn, it is the underlying inflammation in the artery walls, rather than the excess cholesterol that is the root cause of atherosclerosis. Cut out the grains, etc and the sat fat is not an issue (if it even increases cholesterol in the first place, which isn't certain anyways).
        Karin

        A joyful heart is good medicine

        He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliot

        Mmmmm. Real food is good.

        My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread29685.html

        Comment


        • #5
          I guess he's been reading the Perfect Health Diet?
          Calm the f**k down.

          Comment


          • #6
            Right. The info is not new. Cordain's stance is new.
            Don't be a paleotard...

            http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...oxidation.html

            http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...torage-qa.html

            http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...rn-fat-qa.html

            http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nut...-you-need.html

            Comment


            • #7
              It's interesting that this particular info about oxidized cholesterol is not voiced more often. I read about oxidized cholesterol years ago in Nina Planck's Real Food, but it was barely covered. I have made the personal commitment not to eat anything with skim milk powder or powdered eggs in them because of it, but how many new people to the PB or Paleo hear about it? All the new folks hear is eat lots and lots of healthy saturated fat. Even good fat that has been industrialized is awful. Specifically: Oxidized (powdered) Cholesterol.
              Every Day is a New Adventure

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by New Renaissance View Post
                It's interesting that this particular info about oxidized cholesterol is not voiced more often. I read about oxidized cholesterol years ago in Nina Planck's Real Food, but it was barely covered. I have made the personal commitment not to eat anything with skim milk powder or powdered eggs in them because of it, but how many new people to the PB or Paleo hear about it? All the new folks hear is eat lots and lots of healthy saturated fat. Even good fat that has been industrialized is awful. Specifically: Oxidized (powdered) Cholesterol.
                True. I have brought this topic up many times but it just seems to get ignored.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Meh. I'm starting to feel like reading Dr. Cordain (especially with him constantly changing his mind, so it seems) is like watching Dr. Oz.
                  --Trish (Bork)
                  TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
                  http://pregnantdiabetic.blogspot.com
                  FOOD PORN BLOG! http://theprimaljunkfoodie.blogspot.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by New Renaissance View Post
                    It's interesting that this particular info about oxidized cholesterol is not voiced more often. I read about oxidized cholesterol years ago in Nina Planck's Real Food, but it was barely covered. I have made the personal commitment not to eat anything with skim milk powder or powdered eggs in them because of it, but how many new people to the PB or Paleo hear about it? All the new folks hear is eat lots and lots of healthy saturated fat. Even good fat that has been industrialized is awful. Specifically: Oxidized (powdered) Cholesterol.
                    well start the discussion, i am interested.... talk to me about some oxidized cholesterol and primal
                    Get on my Level
                    http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Why would anyone want to increase plaque formation even if it wasn't a riskfactor for a coronary event? I think from a quality of life point of view this would not be smart, and I'm glad Cordains recommendations are not static.

                      he talks about it http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/wp-co...d-Sat-Fats.mp3

                      And I agree that this is an important finding that needs to be discussed more.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Primal Toad View Post
                        Dr. Cordain wrote a book chapter and published a paper (with our team member Pedro Bastos) where he shows that saturated fat consumption in ancient hunter-gatherer populations were usually 10-15% above the recommended 10% of energy from saturated fats, yet they were non-atherogenic.
                        As if, realistically speaking, he could do this.

                        The consumption of saturated fat by "ancient hunter-gatherers" was likely quite high (and quite likely higher than Cordain thinks even now). But the idea that he could put an exact figure on it is ridiculous. I mean ... you know ... they're all dead, and the same goes for the game they pursued.

                        This is the man who said previously that wild game was lean. He did base this on game he'd shot. But then he wasn't in a position to shoot game that would have been around in a landscape that hadn't been impacted on by agricultural, and then industrial, man. The fecundity of parts of the Americas pre-contact is truly staggering. People used to kill deer in parts of what's now the U.S. where white men hadn't yet been and find it had four inches of fat on it. Of course, as settlers encroached and hunted and fished the game out and destroyed its habitat, it began very rapidly to get both scarcer and smaller. There are accounts of people moving into newly opened areas from the East and writing in disbelief about the quantity of game and its sizeónot knowing that a hundred or so years before people newly arrived from Europe were writing in the same way about the East coast.

                        And he says "yet they were non-atherogenic". Well, again, he can't look at the arteries of "ancient hunter gatherers", so he doesn't know what state they were in. That's just speculation. (I'm sure their arteries would have been fine, but no one can claim to know what they were like. As i said, they're all, you know, dead. Their heads have been cold for millennia.)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lewis View Post
                          As if, realistically speaking, he could do this.

                          The consumption of saturated fat by "ancient hunter-gatherers" was likely quite high (and quite likely higher than Cordain thinks even now). But the idea that he could put an exact figure on it is ridiculous. I mean ... you know ... they're all dead, and the same goes for the game they pursued.

                          This is the man who said previously that wild game was lean. He did base this on game he'd shot. But then he wasn't in a position to shoot game that would have been around in a landscape that hadn't been impacted on by agricultural, and then industrial, man. The fecundity of parts of the Americas pre-contact is truly staggering. People used to kill deer in parts of what's now the U.S. where white men hadn't yet been and find it had four inches of fat on it. Of course, as settlers encroached and hunted and fished the game out and destroyed its habitat, it began very rapidly to get both scarcer and smaller. There are accounts of people moving into newly opened areas from the East and writing in disbelief about the quantity of game and its size—not knowing that a hundred or so years before people newly arrived from Europe were writing in the same way about the East coast.

                          And he says "yet they were non-atherogenic". Well, again, he can't look at the arteries of "ancient hunter gatherers", so he doesn't know what state they were in. That's just speculation. (I'm sure their arteries would have been fine, but no one can claim to know what they were like. As i said, they're all, you know, dead. Their heads have been cold for millennia.)

                          The obvious conclusion to the entire argument you're making is that there is no point in trying to even emulate a "primal" or paleo diet given our distance from it. Please click the audio in my post and you'll see that there WAS an inuit who was frozen and pathologically examined and was found to have plaque formation.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by straxville View Post
                            Why would anyone want to increase plaque formation even if it wasn't a riskfactor for a coronary event? I think from a quality of life point of view this would not be smart, and I'm glad Cordains recommendations are not static.

                            he talks about it http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/wp-co...d-Sat-Fats.mp3

                            And I agree that this is an important finding that needs to be discussed more.
                            This would be known as the fallacy of affirming the consequent. If saturated fat causes atherosclerosis then the Inuits who ate saturated fat will have atherosclerosis. The Inuits who ate saturated fat had atherosclerosis, therefore saturated fat causes atherosclerosis?

                            But wait, why can't it be from cooking with seal oil? Exactly. That's why this is a fallacy and an all too common one in the world of wild nutritional speculation.
                            Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                            Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                              This would be known as the fallacy of affirming the consequent. If saturated fat causes atherosclerosis then the Inuits who ate saturated fat will have atherosclerosis. The Inuits who ate saturated fat had atherosclerosis, therefore saturated fat causes atherosclerosis?

                              But wait, why can't it be from cooking with seal oil? Exactly. That's why this is a fallacy and an all too common one in the world of wild nutritional speculation.
                              If their diet was comprised of only fatty meat then that eliminates pretty much all of the variables. I dont understand the seal oil reference but unless cold climate can cause plaque formation then I think it's highly plausible that the diet was involved. Not to mention every study on other species, and no not just rats or mice, has shown that you can reproduce MI's with a diet high in saturated fat

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X