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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 )

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  • #31
    for those of us who follow the IF/leangains way of eating, these posts are really informative and personally very useful for using as an explaination tool when non IFers ask reasons why you follow this type of eating pattern. so thankyou pklopp for your amazing posts.
    am looking forward to the ebook/blog (if you manage to find the time) so please keep us up to speed with your progress on that.

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    • #32
      I just broke a 24 hour fast with a "sarda" which is like a king mackerel or something, with olive oil, 2 sweet potatoes, raw cucumber, raw spinach, a couple of strawberries, and then a shake with goat milk (300ml) with a couple of more strawberries, plus chia seeds, cinnamon and a load of whey protein (65g).

      I'm stuffed. I don't know how you guys seem to eat so little after a fast. Or I just have an eating disorder.

      Anyway, I think it was "just" 2000 calories or so, in one go.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by JPA View Post
        I just broke a 24 hour fast with a "sarda" which is like a king mackerel or something, with olive oil, 2 sweet potatoes, raw cucumber, raw spinach, a couple of strawberries, and then a shake with goat milk (300ml) with a couple of more strawberries, plus chia seeds, cinnamon and a load of whey protein (65g).

        I'm stuffed. I don't know how you guys seem to eat so little after a fast. Or I just have an eating disorder.

        Anyway, I think it was "just" 2000 calories or so, in one go.
        Why 2 sweet potatoes, why not 1? Why a milk shake? Why not water or tea? Why the whey protein? Why would you want to try to overeat?

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        • #34
          Adding my thanks for your generous sharing of information throughout this series.
          “Whether you think you can, or think you can’t — you’re right.” ~ Henry Ford

          My primal journal

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          • #35
            Originally posted by dboxing View Post
            Why 2 sweet potatoes, why not 1? Why a milk shake? Why not water or tea? Why the whey protein? Why would you want to try to overeat?
            Because he was hungry and didn't want tea, Jenny Craig. My post-fasting meals are typically in the 1500-2000 kcal range.

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            • #36
              My first fast I did was 40 hours. It was easy - surprisingly easy. I'm doing a forty hour once a fortnight, and a 24 hour one on every alternate week. Is that ok?

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              • #37
                Originally posted by PrimalRFG View Post
                Because he was hungry and didn't want tea, Jenny Craig. My post-fasting meals are typically in the 1500-2000 kcal range.
                Originally posted by dboxing View Post
                Why 2 sweet potatoes, why not 1? Why a milk shake? Why not water or tea? Why the whey protein? Why would you want to try to overeat?
                Originally posted by JPA View Post
                I just broke a 24 hour fast with a "sarda" which is like a king mackerel or something, with olive oil, 2 sweet potatoes, raw cucumber, raw spinach, a couple of strawberries, and then a shake with goat milk (300ml) with a couple of more strawberries, plus chia seeds, cinnamon and a load of whey protein (65g).

                I'm stuffed. I don't know how you guys seem to eat so little after a fast. Or I just have an eating disorder.

                Anyway, I think it was "just" 2000 calories or so, in one go.
                I think you need to be careful when breaking your fast to not eat with your eyes, but with your stomach. There is a tendency to try to "make up" for the skipped meals with the break fast meal, which is what I believe is what dboxing was getting at. I think this was brought about by JPA's comment that he was feeling stuffed? I've done this myself, having eaten to the point where my stomach was uncomfortably pushing against other organs! The one tip I can offer is to take a pause while eating to let your body's satiety signals kick in. I think on the order of 5 - 10 minutes. If, after a 10 min. pause you are still hungry, then by all means eat more.

                -PK
                My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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                • #38
                  Still in my early stages of learning this eating method, I can say that I'm starting to discover that this excellent advice, re: eating for 5-10 minutes, then taking a break. That has become a welcome habit, and works quite nicely. I think the tendency at times is to shove food in our bodies,rather than take time to actually enjoy it. While I know some are against this, I eat while reading, and take my time with each bite. As it is, I'm reading the Primal Blueprint now. So then I sit back, read for a while, then return to eating whatever else I might desire. My biggest issue now is eating an entire bag of frozen veggies in one sitting...but damn, those little suckers are like candy.
                  The Sedition of Sisyphus: Go Find Another Rock

                  Griff's Cholesterol Primer

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                  • #39
                    Can you have coffee/water during IF?

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jens522 View Post
                      Can you have coffee/water during IF?
                      Of course.

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                      • #41
                        What do you think about having a tbs or so of coconut oil whilst stretching out fast to 40 hrs? This may help keep the fast going if you are used to doing only 16-20 hr fasts. Do you think it would help at all?

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Sue View Post
                          What do you think about having a tbs or so of coconut oil whilst stretching out fast to 40 hrs? This may help keep the fast going if you are used to doing only 16-20 hr fasts. Do you think it would help at all?
                          If you need a little bit of nutritional support during the extended fast, it is always best to go to a good source of fats as the body does not differentiate between exogenous and endogenous FFAs. I tend to like heavy cream ( 35% milk fat ) in my coffee. If you don't drink coffee, or prefer coconut oil in your coffee, or plain for that matter, that is an excellent way to help you maintain the fast.

                          -PK
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by GUN5LING3R View Post
                            great thread pklopp!! Someone else asked you if you believe that this type of fasting can break thru a weight loss plateau. I have made great progress and have really leaned out. I would like to lose another 5-7 lbs. of fat. Could this be the way? Thanks again for this excellent thread.
                            I might be biased, but I think fasting is an excellent way to break through a fat loss plateau.

                            -PK
                            My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                            Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                              I might be biased, but I think fasting is an excellent way to break through a fat loss plateau.

                              -PK
                              And how often? Will doing it a few days a week yield results?

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                                You have to be very careful with language because to define something is to limit it. That is, the linguistic framework we build around something restricts our ability to think about it. A perfect example of this is the notion of "antagonistic" hormones. Antagonism, for most of us, suggests that these hormones are at cross purposes with each other. But that is not what we mean at all. Rather, what we are trying to say is that, in general, when we sample cortisol and GH in an individual, we observe that they are inversely correlated, so when levels of one are high, the levels of the other are low. But this is a much weaker statement than "antagonism", because it allows for the existence of specific circumstances when we may observe high concentrations of both, like say, during prolonged energy deprivation.

                                When the body detects that there is an energy shortfall, it will do several things:
                                • It will attempt to reduce the amount of energy it discretionarily expends, which will necessarily impact thyroid hormones, and ultimately, thermogenesis, which is quite expensive in terms of energy consumed. So, during a prolonged fast, expect cold hands and feet, and better make sure you have a heavier blanket.
                                • It will attempt to conserve blood glucose and to do this it needs all tissues that do not require glucose to stop trying absorb it from the blood. Luckily, GH inhibits the use of glucose by the muscle. But that leaves us in the position of having lost a source of energy for muscular activity. Doubly luckily, GH is lipolytic which increases FFA availability as an alternative energy substrate for the muscles. But what about those tissues that cannot use FFAs and resulting ketones for energy? For those tissues:
                                • It will attempt to produce new glucose via gluconeogenesis. In this case, the inputs to this process are amino acids, so the body will need to find a supplier for these that does not require food. Luckily, we carry large pools of amino acids in all of our proteinaceous tissues. The trick is to liberate them, and this we achieve via the action of cortisol. So, during the course of a fast, cortisol levels increase to ensure that we can rely on gluconeogenesis as a source of glucose.


                                All of this is to say that actually, GH and cortisol are acting synergistically to provide the body with adequate energy from internal sources.

                                The cortisol belly fat connection is a marketing ploy to attempt to sell you some particular pharmaceutical or herbal cocktail that presumes to fix it. This is very similar to what happened with cellulite, which is nothing more than subcutaneous fat, but if I can sell you the disease, cellulite, then I can sell you the cures: anti-cellulite creams, exercise programs, and magic bracelets.

                                I am extremely fond of my proteinaceous tissues, especially my muscles. If there were some way to direct my cortisol to take some protein out of my nose, to make it more petite and button like, that would be great. Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that, so I am extremely wary of pushing my system into a situation where it will start to cannibalize hard earned muscle to keep my silly brain alive. So now, we have a tradeoff. How much muscle am I willing to give up for less subcutaneous fat? Not very much, so I advocate keeping fasting in the range of 40 hours in accordance with my priorities. If you really want to burn more fat, fast longer, realizing that you will be sacrificing more muscle tissue along the way. I do not recommend that you do this, but, it is ultimately your reality, and your decision.

                                -PK
                                That makes sense, thank you!
                                Huh, I had kind of taken the cortisol-belly fat connection as a given.
                                I wasn't asking about cortisol during 40+ hour fasts but in these up-to-40-hr fasts you write about here... I suppose even in these 40-hour-fasts there is some protein tissue/muscle breakdown but it's not significant compared to the use of stored fat?

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