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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 )

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  • Hi all,

    Was wondering for the people that are attempting this version of fasting, are you using a strict primal diet, or have you seen if it's okay to be a bit more loose due to the strict nature of the diet?

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    • Originally posted by DavidBeersAuthor View Post
      Hi all,

      Was wondering for the people that are attempting this version of fasting, are you using a strict primal diet, or have you seen if it's okay to be a bit more loose due to the strict nature of the diet?
      When I started doing this, I basically ate roughly whatever I felt like eating, and I was still losing weight. Things seemed to accelerate once I started to pay closer attention to what I was eating, but you need to keep in mind that as you lose body fat, each additional percent that you drop becomes much more noticeable, so that might explain my perception of accelerated results.

      I would say that it won't hurt to relax your dietary constraints, just so long as you don't get most of your calories from chocolate and peanut butter ice cream, you should be fine. In other words, don't use fasting as an excuse to eat crap. The occasional foray into indulgent food will help to keep you sane.

      Good luck!

      -PK
      My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

      Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

      Comment


      • Good info


        Sent from my iPhone using Marks Daily Apple Forum

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        • PK. Again great post. Been re-reading these posts.
          Question. What is your take when fasting and working out (strength session). Any benefit or what is your take on taking 10g BCAA's pre or during the workout?
          BCAA's around fasted workout..... What is your take?

          Thanks
          - Dan

          Comment


          • Just finished 40h. My wide and I decided to do this once / week (was doing that once every month or two). I may push it to 3 days occasionally, after reading this thing about cleaning your immune system.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
              I think BCAAs are pretty much a non-issue, assuming that you don't overdose on them, something which is pretty hard to do, as they taste absolutely awful.

              BCAAs seem to promote mitochondrial health and protein synthesis in muscle tissue, so there is an argument to be made for taking them. I believe that Martin at Leangains promotes something on the order of 20g BCAAs on lifting days, 10g before working out and 10g afterwards. Even if BCAAs were to be gram for gram converted into straight up glucose with 4 kcal/g energy density, and ignoring the energy costs of gluconeogenesis, then this would represent an 80 calorie carbohydrate "meal", a trivial amount.

              I would say take your BCAAs. At worst, you would be merely wasting your money, I don't think they would be harmful to your fasts or metabolism in general, and I'll continue under this assumption until I see some research suggesting otherwise.

              -PK
              Great found this one. Do you feel the same base on your experience now?
              Thanks!
              - Dan

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                Are you following LeanGains by any chance? I know Martin Berkhan is a big proponent of BCAA supplementation.

                My sense is that in any amount that you are likely to be taking them, they should not interfere. The question is whether the BCAAs will result in any significant insulin response. I don't know about that, but I have seen studies that suggest that BCAA levels in the plasma increase during starvation. I expect this is because BCAAs are readily oxidized during exercise and during starvation or fasting, they are released to provide a systemic energy substrate. I'm speculating there, but it seems reasonable. So, BCAA supplementation is mimicking your metabolic response, which I would expect to maintain the fasting hormonal context.

                -PK
                Found this one too....
                - Dan

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Danco3636 View Post
                  Great found this one. Do you feel the same base on your experience now?
                  Thanks!
                  - Dan
                  Hi Dan,

                  My position on BCAAs hasn't really changed. They look interesting, and at worst, I think they are merely benign. I haven't really undertaken to consistently use BCAAs to determine what effect, if any, they might have for me.

                  Some interesting observations about BCAAs. On average, protein contains about 30% BCAAs, given that there are only 3 such aminos, leucine, isoleucine, and valine, and a total of 20 different amino acids, that means that BCAAs are heavily over represented in your muscle tissue.

                  The liver is a site of very active and vigorous protein synthesis, as such, it extracts a great deal of incoming amino acids from the portal vein for its own needs. When you ingest protein, the proportion of BCAAs in the portal vein leading to the liver is the expected 30%, but once the liver takes care of selectively absorbing what it needs, the concentration of BCAAs in blood flowing out of the liver and into peripheral circulation is 70%.

                  But as I noted, your muscle BCAA content is roughly 30%. This suggests that a little more than half of the BCAAs that we ingest wind up being oxidized for energy. Which leads me to speculate that BCAAs function as yet another energy substrate, and if they do not cause any significant insulin response, then they could help maintain energy levels / spare muscle energy stores while fasting and training.

                  -PK
                  My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                  Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                    Hi Dan,

                    My position on BCAAs hasn't really changed. They look interesting, and at worst, I think they are merely benign. I haven't really undertaken to consistently use BCAAs to determine what effect, if any, they might have for me.

                    Some interesting observations about BCAAs. On average, protein contains about 30% BCAAs, given that there are only 3 such aminos, leucine, isoleucine, and valine, and a total of 20 different amino acids, that means that BCAAs are heavily over represented in your muscle tissue.

                    The liver is a site of very active and vigorous protein synthesis, as such, it extracts a great deal of incoming amino acids from the portal vein for its own needs. When you ingest protein, the proportion of BCAAs in the portal vein leading to the liver is the expected 30%, but once the liver takes care of selectively absorbing what it needs, the concentration of BCAAs in blood flowing out of the liver and into peripheral circulation is 70%.

                    But as I noted, your muscle BCAA content is roughly 30%. This suggests that a little more than half of the BCAAs that we ingest wind up being oxidized for energy. Which leads me to speculate that BCAAs function as yet another energy substrate, and if they do not cause any significant insulin response, then they could help maintain energy levels / spare muscle energy stores while fasting and training.

                    -PK
                    Makes sense....
                    Thanks so much for your reply....

                    - Dan

                    Comment


                    • LG protocol with 46 hour fasts - your thoughts

                      Originally posted by Danco3636 View Post
                      Makes sense....
                      Thanks so much for your reply....

                      - Dan

                      Hi Guys,

                      I am in a late stage type of cut and kept failing to get below 10% BF due to adherence on the low cal days. I am testing the below protocol and would like your feedback. I am exactly 2 years in to a fat loss journey using Leangains and Primal eating. I started at close to 20% and now am about 10% (based on regular bf testing using the 7 point method).

                      I do a 3 day routine which just repeats.

                      Day 1 - one meal at 6 PM
                      Day 2 - one meal at 6 PM
                      Day 3 - no food
                      Rinse and repeat

                      Comment


                      • PK
                        When doing days where I lift weights say around 10-11 am or so before noon how do you structure ones meal if trying to condense to 1 meal a day? Say my normal meal time is say between 6-8 AM. Should I just do a shorter fast if two meals with one being 1-2 hours post workout say around 12-1pm. And then a second meal around my normal eveneg meal time?

                        Does meal timing matter much when adapting fasting and condensing meals to one or two a day? Just looking for some insight on how you may fit in an early workout session and fasting.
                        Perhaps just the LG's model with some days shorter eating window and lift days around a 16-18 hour fast with a longer window incorporating 2 meals. This may allow a protein rich meal post workout.

                        Thanks for any insights.

                        - Dan

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Danco3636 View Post
                          PK
                          When doing days where I lift weights say around 10-11 am or so before noon how do you structure ones meal if trying to condense to 1 meal a day? Say my normal meal time is say between 6-8 AM. Should I just do a shorter fast if two meals with one being 1-2 hours post workout say around 12-1pm. And then a second meal around my normal eveneg meal time?

                          Does meal timing matter much when adapting fasting and condensing meals to one or two a day? Just looking for some insight on how you may fit in an early workout session and fasting.
                          Perhaps just the LG's model with some days shorter eating window and lift days around a 16-18 hour fast with a longer window incorporating 2 meals. This may allow a protein rich meal post workout.

                          Thanks for any insights.

                          - Dan
                          I don't think that there is much credibility to the post workout eating window, which means that there is no need to actually have a meal within that 1 - 2 hours following your workout. With that said, you may not be convinced, and or you might feel ravenous due to the exertion. That being the case, I would be more inclined to make the midday meal the proper full on meal, and dispense with the evening meal on that day, assuming your circumstances permit.

                          The overall goal here is to try to avoid being too dogmatic. If you are trying to coalesce meals, but your training schedule is getting somewhat in the way of that, I think you can safely add a smaller meal.

                          -PK
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                          Comment


                          • Outside of protein synthesis, I wonder if you workout fasted if there is an effect on muscle breakdown. Ie, why Martin Berkhan advised BCAA supp's before working out. If that is a real issue then eating some fast digesting protein and/or carbs post workout could help to switch-off this breakdown. I like to start my feed-window right after my workout. Seems to work OK for me, even with significant amount of fruit.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                              I don't think that there is much credibility to the post workout eating window, which means that there is no need to actually have a meal within that 1 - 2 hours following your workout. With that said, you may not be convinced, and or you might feel ravenous due to the exertion. That being the case, I would be more inclined to make the midday meal the proper full on meal, and dispense with the evening meal on that day, assuming your circumstances permit.

                              The overall goal here is to try to avoid being too dogmatic. If you are trying to coalesce meals, but your training schedule is getting somewhat in the way of that, I think you can safely add a smaller meal.

                              -PK
                              Makes sense. Thanks!

                              Comment

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