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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 )

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  • Originally posted by dboxing View Post
    Why 2 sweet potatoes, why not 1? Why a milk shake? Why not water or tea? Why the whey protein? Why would you want to try to overeat?
    I think this is the biggest question I must ask msyelf - The last 2 days at the end of the daily 20 Hr+ fast I have more or less stuffed myself with food.

    I may even have some B.E.D ? (that would suck though... ) I hope to eat in the 'normal range' today at dinner! Cheers.

    - Vishnu

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    • Originally posted by vishnuns39620 View Post
      I think this is the biggest question I must ask msyelf - The last 2 days at the end of the daily 20 Hr+ fast I have more or less stuffed myself with food.

      I may even have some B.E.D ? (that would suck though... ) I hope to eat in the 'normal range' today at dinner! Cheers.

      - Vishnu
      When I was doing a 5 hour window I found it useful to fix a small but satisfying snack to break the fast with. Otherwise I might wait just a few hours until dinner and then eat so fast I ate too much.

      Comment


      • I was IF'ing Leangains style for a few months and thought it was the way to go. Then I read pklopp's Part 1-3 series on IF and it made so much sense to me, especially considering that he could back up his theories with scientific facts and wasn't just pulling rabbits out of a hat with fancy music and flashing lights.

        Even though pklopp suggests to push your lunch back 1/2 an hour per week so you don't transition too fast I couldn't do it that slow because I'm impatient when I stumble onto something that clicks with me. I pushed my lunch back 1 hr per week and haven't experienced any issues whatsoever, but YMMV of course. After seven weeks my lunch fell onto my dinner and thus I had achieved the one meal a day scenario. Then I held this scenario for 3 weeks before I instituted a weekly 44 hr fast by simply skipping my Saturday dinner. On my 3rd week of following this regimen I must say that I've never felt better. I'm rarely feeling hungry and my dinners are satisfying yet not a huge feast of ancient roman proportions. My energy level is top notch and my strength is increasing every week.

        I'm lifting heavy twice a week and doing Tabatha sprints and planking once a week. All in all, I spend about 20 min in the gym per workout. Progressively adding weight to the bar every week with no signs of stalling. Muscle definition is starting to emerge, my head is clear and sharp, and I have gone through 3 pant sizes since I started. Oh, and I have a Bulletproof coffee every morning as well.

        Based on personal experience, I can wholeheartedly recommend pklopp's IF suggestions as they have been working like a charm for me. I will continue to IF this way and give periodical updates down the line.
        "It's true, you are a good woman. Then again, you may be the antichrist."

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        • Originally posted by jackaaron View Post
          I know this seems trivial, but I cannot find the answer lol!

          But, within fasting, I realize you say you can drink coffee with a little bit of creme, etc. I read that this doesn't really effect the fast, even if it ends up being a couple hundred calories, but you want to try to limit the creme.

          I have a few questions...

          It seems that anything outside of water is still begin digested, right? Isn't part of the positive from IF that you're not digesting something (like coffee/creme) nearly 20 hours out of the day? Maybe it's just so negligible.

          Also, I thought I saw someone say they use Heavy Whipping Cream instead of just regular creamer. For example, there's only 50 cals, 5g Fat, and 0 sugar/carb in something like Horizon Organic Heavy Whipping Cream. Would this be something that, with coffee, would be okay while you're not eating?

          Thanks.
          The primary reason we fast is to achieve a specific hormonal profile conducive to more favourable nutrient partitioning. This generally means low insulin so that we oxidize fats in place of carbohydrates or protein. With that in mind, digestion isn't really our focus, insofar as if we could find a nutrient to digest that would not budge our circulating insulin levels, we would be in keeping with our overall approach.

          The nutrient that we can eat without creating an insulin response is dietary fat, which means that we can go ahead and include minimal amounts of it during the fasted phase. Keep in mind that adipose tissue is perfectly capable of assimilating plasma triglycerides without elevated insulin, which means that as the cream from your coffee hits your system this will result in a net decrease in lypolysis.

          When drinking cream with our coffee, we have a couple of things in our favour, 1) the amount of cream used is probably minimal in the grand scheme of things, and 2) because we are not affecting insulin levels, your muscles are still deriving their energy from beta oxidation of free fatty acids.

          If you truly want to maximize your results, you should probably have your coffee black. However, for many people this proves to be one of the most difficult things to do. I also cannot quantify how much better your results are going to be, which means that if it were the case that by cutting out cream you get 1% more fatty acid oxidation, I'm not sure the deprivation would be worth it. If that number were 10% or higher, it may very well be worth it to go without.

          Bottom line, if having cream in your coffee helps you stick to your fast otherwise, I would endorse it without reservation with the single caveat that you keep it within reason ( i.e. if you are using more than 1 tbsp per cup, or wind up having 1 cup per hour .... hmmmm )

          As far as heavy whipping cream vs. other cream, it is fine to add to your coffee. The main difference with whipping cream is that it has additives to help maintain the colloid suspension ( i.e. the peaks once you've aerated the cream by whipping it ). As well, whipping cream tends to be higher in milk fat content, around 30+% whereas regular cream is around 15%. In the UK this would be double cream, meaning double the fat content of regular cream.

          -PK
          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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          • Intriguing! I've been using about 100 kcal of blended coconut milk in coffee as a breakfast replacement for several months but not specifically as a fasting strategy (my day job is in a food desert with no refrigerator so I'd rather not bother with lunch). Now I wonder if it preserves the overnight fasted state? It keeps me pretty stress-free until my first meal which is typically 2pm or 6pm.
            37//6'3"/185

            My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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            • Originally posted by picklepete View Post
              Intriguing! I've been using about 100 kcal of blended coconut milk in coffee as a breakfast replacement for several months but not specifically as a fasting strategy (my day job is in a food desert with no refrigerator so I'd rather not bother with lunch). Now I wonder if it preserves the overnight fasted state? It keeps me pretty stress-free until my first meal which is typically 2pm or 6pm.
              I wonder how one would determine that. Would blood glucose tests tell us what is going on?

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              • Originally posted by picklepete View Post
                Intriguing! I've been using about 100 kcal of blended coconut milk in coffee as a breakfast replacement for several months but not specifically as a fasting strategy (my day job is in a food desert with no refrigerator so I'd rather not bother with lunch). Now I wonder if it preserves the overnight fasted state? It keeps me pretty stress-free until my first meal which is typically 2pm or 6pm.
                Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                I wonder how one would determine that. Would blood glucose tests tell us what is going on?
                Yes, I've been doing the same thing with coconut cream for quite a while now. I don't have a glucose meter but it would be interesting to find out.

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                • Originally posted by Paleobird View Post
                  Yes, I've been doing the same thing with coconut cream for quite a while now. I don't have a glucose meter but it would be interesting to find out.
                  Hopefully someone who has one will do the test. I have a meter but I don't drink coffee and drink my tea plain.

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                  • PK, thanks for the post and sharing our insights regarding fasting. it's really fascinating.

                    I'm only speculating and thinking out-loud at this point. From the charts in your original post, there seems to be a relationship between the increase in ketones (B-OHB) and the release of fatty acids further into the fast. If you were to use a ketogenic diet to increase your B-OHB (ketone bodies) prior to fasting, do you think you could it could result in releasing free fatty acids within a 24 hour period as though you've been in a fast for 40 hours? Another way to look at the same questions. If my B-OHB levels were 1.0 in a fasted state and reached 1.8 at the end of 24 hours, wouldn't there be the potential to release peak fatty acids as though one has been in a fast for 40 hours?

                    I would also be interested to see if it's possible since cortisol levels would also be at it's lower levels while using a shorter fasting period while being in ketosis. What do you think?
                    Nutritional Ketosis Journal - http://dobnk.blogspot.com/ and http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread83999.html

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                    • This trilogy of threads has been absolutely fascinating to read! The idea of acceptably eating once a day holds many great promises, namely saving money on my food to feed our 3yo boy (who eats every hour!!)
                      I haven't bothered to calculate kCals with my food, I know I am currently not eating as much as I probably should. I am on Metermine (30 for 2 months, started 40s today) and I just don't really get hungry. Dinner is 3 veg and meat, say a cup worth of each? I have lost 14.3kg ((33lb) down from 101.5kg) in the last 2 months pretty much eating in a 16/8 style accidently, or with an omelette or plain bacon and eggs at societal breakfast. Would it be beneficial to learn to have CO on its own for more fat? Eating as much as I don't, I am eliminating about once a week, so would my body be utilising more of the food I am eating? And would CO help?

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                      • Ok so I have completed 8 days of 1 meal a day & I loved it completely! It felt great & everything was ..quite easy eventually.

                        But I chanced upon Mark's fasting articles (he's got about 8/9 of them just search out!) & he specifically mentions one shouldnt do the "same fasting regime" for too long because the body would get "used to it" & wind up slowing the metabolism etc etc.

                        My question is this - Is the 40-44 hour fast aimed at reversing this homeostatis? Or would it take a day/2days of normal feeding to reverse the body's functioning so that it speeds up the metabolism once again (hey there's lots of food, no need to slow down now folks!!) ?

                        Any thoughts on this would be very helpful! Happy fasting

                        Regards,
                        Vishnu

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                        • Mix it up.

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                          • Originally posted by vishnuns39620 View Post
                            My question is this - Is the 40-44 hour fast aimed at reversing this homeostatis? Or would it take a day/2days of normal feeding to reverse the body's functioning so that it speeds up the metabolism once again (hey there's lots of food, no need to slow down now folks!!) ?
                            It's not a well-studied area so we can only make guesses. My hunch is that 7 consecutive deficit days is unwise.
                            37//6'3"/185

                            My peculiar nutrition glossary and shopping list

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                            • Originally posted by vishnuns39620 View Post
                              ... he specifically mentions one shouldnt do the "same fasting regime" for too long because the body would get "used to it" & wind up slowing the metabolism etc etc.
                              This study found that after 8 weeks of eating one meal a day (20-23 hour daily fasts) participants lost fat and gained lean mass despite the researchers efforts to have them eat the same number of calories as subjects eating three meals a day. This indicates (though doesn't necessarily mean) that the one meal a day crew had increased metabolisms. This sounds very reasonable to me. So after 8 weeks of intermittent fasting, the beneficial metabolism parameters were still present. Do you think the body would adapt if subjected to a longer intervention? Maybe!
                              I'm a weak man...If I give myself a few feet of leeway, I burst through all of my prohibitions.

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                              • Originally posted by eKatherine View Post
                                Mix it up.
                                So I've be IF'ing for the past 2 1/2 months...mostly on a 18/6 and for the past 2 weeks 20/4 (except for weekends when I do 18/6 for family reasons)...and yesterday I ate about 800 calories and really wasn't hungry for more but decided to have a small meal (I'm doing steak and eggs diet) to get to 1200 calories so I wouldn't overeat today...well this morning I was raveneous and couldn't stop thinking about food to the point that it was distracting me from being productive at work...usual tricks didn't work so I decided to listen to my body and for the first time in 2.5 months had a morning meal 8:45 am (2 hb eggs and 4 pieces of bacon)...but then I started dreaming about a bacon swiss burger so by 10:45 I was having a bunless burger...the beast seems to have been slayed and I'm sated so we will see what happens tonight...if I eat more or can get away with a small or no meal...figure I'm at about 1000 C at this point so hope to keep it small...decided today will be a V instead of a triangle in terms of food intake...I guess I should have listened to my body last night and skipped the last meal because it obviously had no bearing on my hunger today lol...this listening to my body and trusting myself is a process...will be interested to see how this change in my fasting routine affects my weight loss and hunger levels tomorrow...a test to see if mixing it up has any effect

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