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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 )

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  • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
    Yes, I have. Everybody does, eventually. You achieve an equilibrium state where your energy needs are being met by your intake. In the extreme, consider that the only way to consistently and constantly lose weight is to starve, and the natural end point of starvation is death.

    I would rather that we didn't speak of plateaus, but instead that we would refer to having attained an equilibrium. What most people really mean when they refer to a plateau is that they are dissatisfied with the equilibrium that they have attained. I generally like my current equilibrium state where I hover in the neighbourhood of 180 lbs. The reason it is crucial to reframe one's thinking in terms of equilibria is due to the fact that if you reach an equilibrium state that you are pleased with ... you need to keep doing what you've been doing indefinitely if you intend to maintain that state. This is why calorie restricted diets fail principally ... as soon as people achieve an equilibrium state that they are happy with ... they change their behaviour.
    Yes, I can not say that I've reach the equilibrium that I am happy with, I still have a bit to lose (20-15lbs). A bit of a change up may be in order to break the plateau?

    Originally posted by pklopp View Post
    It is not possible to directly answer these questions because I don't know what you refer to when you say "eating this way." I can answer in general terms, however.

    Assuming that you ate identical meals every day, then, absolutely, if you were to do a 40 hour fast, you would break through your plateau. You would be decreasing the average number of meals per week, and therefore the average number of calories per day. Your body would need to increase its reliance on stored adipose tissue to meet its energy needs. Your metabolism would probably slow down somewhat to accomodate the new energy inputs it is receiving, and you would once again eventually reach an equilibrium. The question at that point would be whether you would be happy with that equilibrium.

    Of course, there are confounding issues for females because the menstrual cycle affects hormonal levels profoundly, especially with an eye on water retention. If I were female, I would think that it would take going through at least several menstrual cycles before I could determine the overall effects of my diet somewhat independent of my hormonal fluctuations.

    I might be able to make other suggestions depending upon your macronutrient breakdown.
    My apologies, I meant that I have been eating 1 large meal a day, every day for the past 3 weeks.

    Fitday shows for a normal day:
    1,119 - Calories
    82.2 - Fat (61%)
    26.5g - Carbs (9%)
    86.6 - Protein (30%)


    Originally posted by pklopp View Post
    This morning I had two Americano coffees with about 1 oz. heavy cream and cinnamon. Later that morning, I had a Dunkin Donuts coffee with the cream and cinammon.

    Throughout the day I've drunk three 500 ml. bottles of Poland Springs mineral water. Dinner, which will be somewhere between 17:00 and 18:00, will be approx. 1.4 lbs. of beef steak with cauliflower mash. Cauliflower mash being one steamed head of cauliflower with about 1 stick of salted butter, and about 300g of shredded cheddar cheese, all mashed together.

    Depending on how I feel, I may have a few tablespoons of coconut butter for dessert.
    Thank you! I believe I am on the right track towards foods then. I've tried tea, but don't really like the flavor without sugar, and that won't due. I'm not a big coffee fan as it always make my head spin. In regards to beverages, I believe I'll just stick with water.

    Originally posted by pklopp View Post
    4000 IU of Vitamin D per day, and that's it.

    -PK
    I sent you a PM (please ignore.) I was wondering if I should continue to take vitamins through my 40hr fast. I usually take them after my one meal, but did not know if this would interrupt the fast if I took them without eating..?
    Last edited by croí; 08-29-2011, 11:57 AM.

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    • I've been struggling with the supplement timing myself. Eating in the evening provides the only time to take supplements (with a meal). If I take them outside of the meal, especially fish oil, it's going to break my fast, right? I imagine at this point we're in a complex discussion about the supplements and binders/fillers and whatnot.

      The only issue I had with taking them at night is that it tends to energize me a bit for some hours afterwards and can make it hard to get to sleep. I'm not sure if I just need to get used to it and deal...or if there's a better way yet to be discovered.

      Right now when I'm about to break my fast, I take my omega-3 to lube it up and then take the rest of them. Follow it with a leftover snack from the night before and then my big meal shortly afterwards.

      <0

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      • Originally posted by LessThanZero View Post
        I've been struggling with the supplement timing myself. Eating in the evening provides the only time to take supplements (with a meal). If I take them outside of the meal, especially fish oil, it's going to break my fast, right? I imagine at this point we're in a complex discussion about the supplements and binders/fillers and whatnot.

        The only issue I had with taking them at night is that it tends to energize me a bit for some hours afterwards and can make it hard to get to sleep. I'm not sure if I just need to get used to it and deal...or if there's a better way yet to be discovered.

        Right now when I'm about to break my fast, I take my omega-3 to lube it up and then take the rest of them. Follow it with a leftover snack from the night before and then my big meal shortly afterwards.

        <0
        My point exactly. Should I just not take the suppliments that day, and then continue with the suppliments the next day when I eat (break my 40hr fast)?

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        • that's what I do I figure one day without supplements isn't going to be the end of me.

          <0

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          • I always skip supplements until the fast is broken.
            People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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            • Originally posted by IcarianVX View Post
              I always skip supplements until the fast is broken.
              Makes perfect sense to me. Vitamins would've only entered a Grok's system when eating, so my supps only go with my meals, never in between.

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              • Originally posted by MasterB View Post
                Makes perfect sense to me. Vitamins would've only entered a Grok's system when eating, so my supps only go with my meals, never in between.
                Good Call everyone! I don't think my body would shut down if I skip one day of supplements.

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                • I'm trying my first extended (beyond 24 hr) fast - last meal finished around 9 on Sunday, just a large coffee yesterday morning, one this morning, and plain unsweetened green tea and water. I feel fine - walked 5 miles yesterday (getting point a to point b) and sat through a roomate's extremely delicious smelling thai takeout fest, but it is definitely easier today...glad I did it! will see how results play out over the course of the week. I definitely would not do this all that often but if it is effective in addition to the usual 18-20 hr fasts, I'd do it once every other week maybe.

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                  • Originally posted by LessThanZero View Post
                    that's what I do I figure one day without supplements isn't going to be the end of me.

                    <0
                    The amount of energy to be derived from supplements is negligible. We're probably talking about handful of grams at most, which I would not expect would have any effect on your metabolic state. If such trivial amounts of energy intake were to affect your fast, they would do so via the action of insulin. If your insulin response were that sensitive, you would effectively knock yourself into a diabetic coma by eating a small amount of food, as your body would produce a disproportionately large amount of insulin which would induce all insulin sensitive tissues to start draining glucose from the blood stream, leading to severe hypoglycemia.

                    If we are speaking of oil based supplements, then there is little need to worry, as lipids do not elicit any insulin response.

                    In the end, taking or not taking supplements during your fast to me is six of one and a half dozen of the other.

                    -PK
                    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                    Comment


                    • I mainly do it because if I ingest anything besides water or tea I feel hungry. Probably just a psychological thing, but I have tried it a few times and it works. Well, for me at least.
                      People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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                      • I had been meaning to get into a habit of IF'ing over the summer (just a 16 hour) but found it really difficult, and now that I'm back at school I've fallen into the practice effortlessly. On my move-in day I just didn't have time to eat til dinner, which gave me a 26 hour fast (my friends thought it was nuts that I hadn't eaten anything yet that day, and tried to give me their packaged snacks). All through the weekend I had trainings and just ate a lunch and dinner that were sparse in comparison to my usual meals and also with a 16-18 hour fast. Yesterday I got up early and played around with barbell lifts at the gym (fun!) and did some agility drills. I planned to eat around 11, but I started hanging out with friends and didn't sit down to eat until 9 that evening, so another 26 hour fast. I didn't even feel like eating. My friends only eat junk between meals so it's easy to say no.

                        I'm happy that this is happening so easily since I had packed on more than a few pounds last year for stress (and stress eating) related reasons, but it's just wigging me out that it feels soooo easy. I just don't get hungry... at least not the sort of hungry that makes me actually want to go get something to eat, if that makes sense. I'm just feeling a little superhuman and wanted to share this somewhere. If I told my friends they would think I "had a problem."

                        Thanks if you read all that... so I'm wondering: I'd like to fit into all of my old pants again. I'm a 21 year old female. How often is it OK to do a day-long fast? And will my whole schedule just sort of implode one day if I'm not eating enough at my one-to-two meals, or will I just see some weight loss with no real adverse effects? So far I feel great, but I have not counted calories, but am quite sure I'm eating far below the amount recommended for my size.

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                        • Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                          I had been meaning to get into a habit of IF'ing over the summer (just a 16 hour) but found it really difficult, and now that I'm back at school I've fallen into the practice effortlessly. On my move-in day I just didn't have time to eat til dinner, which gave me a 26 hour fast (my friends thought it was nuts that I hadn't eaten anything yet that day, and tried to give me their packaged snacks). All through the weekend I had trainings and just ate a lunch and dinner that were sparse in comparison to my usual meals and also with a 16-18 hour fast. Yesterday I got up early and played around with barbell lifts at the gym (fun!) and did some agility drills. I planned to eat around 11, but I started hanging out with friends and didn't sit down to eat until 9 that evening, so another 26 hour fast. I didn't even feel like eating. My friends only eat junk between meals so it's easy to say no.

                          I'm happy that this is happening so easily since I had packed on more than a few pounds last year for stress (and stress eating) related reasons, but it's just wigging me out that it feels soooo easy. I just don't get hungry... at least not the sort of hungry that makes me actually want to go get something to eat, if that makes sense. I'm just feeling a little superhuman and wanted to share this somewhere. If I told my friends they would think I "had a problem."

                          Thanks if you read all that... so I'm wondering: I'd like to fit into all of my old pants again. I'm a 21 year old female. How often is it OK to do a day-long fast? And will my whole schedule just sort of implode one day if I'm not eating enough at my one-to-two meals, or will I just see some weight loss with no real adverse effects? So far I feel great, but I have not counted calories, but am quite sure I'm eating far below the amount recommended for my size.
                          Way to go! I'm a 25 yr old female, and I do 24hour fasts everyday. I'm just not hungery during the day, and with my schedule (2 jobs and raising a 6 year old on my own) it's just so much easier just to worry about eating at night. You're right people think we have a problem if we say something about only eating once a day. I just find that if you don't mention it, they won't notice. I've been eating only 1 large meal a day for about 4 weeks now, and just recently (this week) incorporated a 43hr fast. I had dinner Sunday night, and then didn't eat again until Tuesday late afternoon. I never felt better! I'm losing weight effortlessly, with only walking right now as my exercise. And did I mention... it saves on the grocery bills?!?!
                          Last edited by croí; 08-31-2011, 06:34 AM.

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                          • If you burn some ganj on a fast, does this affect the fast?

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                            • <shifts eyes from side to side>

                              I lose a lot of weight still. What I've been really curious about is how the hunger affects Ghrelin output. The 'high' from my fasting is comparable/better than that of the vice; enough that I've reduced consumption considerably. What I've not been able to discern is whether or not this is from Ghrelin or because thc is stored in fat cells and oxidizing the fat is also bringing the thc into the bloodstream again.

                              So, have I always been experiencing Ghrelin when I suppress the munchies, but it was present with an additional high so it wasn't noticed?
                              Is my Ghrelin high enhanced by freeing the thc from my fat cells?

                              Am I just overthinking this entire thing?

                              <deep thoughts>



                              <0

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                              • Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                                I'm happy that this is happening so easily since I had packed on more than a few pounds last year for stress (and stress eating) related reasons, but it's just wigging me out that it feels soooo easy. I just don't get hungry... at least not the sort of hungry that makes me actually want to go get something to eat, if that makes sense. I'm just feeling a little superhuman and wanted to share this somewhere. If I told my friends they would think I "had a problem."
                                I'm glad to hear that things are working out so well for you. I've found that when I first tell people about the fact that I fast, their reactions tend to be similar to what I might expect if I had just revealed that I was a Satanist and about to head to the nearest tattoo parlor to get a pentagram on my forehead. Generally, however, these kinds of conversations are initiated by others ... I do not run around accosting people on sidewalks proselytizing fasting. This means that there is something about me that prompts them to ask about my diet and training. This inevitably leads to a significant degree of cognitive dissonance as people try to reconcile the way that I look with their belief that I am starving myself. The truly fascinating thing to me is that as I stand in front of them, there is a not insignificant proportion of people that will reject the evidence presented by their senses in order to preserve their dogmatic conviction that fasting is starvation.

                                Originally posted by sjmc View Post
                                Thanks if you read all that... so I'm wondering: I'd like to fit into all of my old pants again. I'm a 21 year old female. How often is it OK to do a day-long fast? And will my whole schedule just sort of implode one day if I'm not eating enough at my one-to-two meals, or will I just see some weight loss with no real adverse effects? So far I feel great, but I have not counted calories, but am quite sure I'm eating far below the amount recommended for my size.
                                I've been intermittent fasting for three years now, and I don't foresee stopping, barring some catastrophic event. Your body will achieve an equilibrium and sort things out. Calories recommended for someone with your BMI are generally based on so many assumptions to be practically meaningless. If your body can make up for any caloric deficit with stored adipose energy, it will do so, and you will lose weight. Eventually, you will draw down your adipose energy store, and your body will respond by either lowering your basal metabolic rate so that you don't require as much energy, or by increasing your appetite via the leptin feedback loop so that you will naturally eat more. Since you are female, you also have a great feedback mechanism in terms of your menstrual cycle. If it is business as usual, then you can safely assume that metabolically you are fine. If you start noticing changes, you might want to pay attention and reevaluate.

                                For what it's worth, during the last 3 years of IF, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I've counted calories, and even then, it was only for the sake of curiosity rather than to set a target.

                                -PK
                                My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                                Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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