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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 3 )

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  • Originally posted by DFH View Post
    Read the OP (page 1) again. Does it talk about who should be doing this? No. It just says do it, more is better. Maybe if someone is in the gym all the time and admiring their muscles and just wants to tune up a bit, maybe they should do it. Others, who knows? Read up on the leptin reset. A lot of people need to do that instead. As Dr Kruse said, "IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant". It is irresponsible for people to keep pushing this on everyone as if it is the best approach for everyone. I know that there are people that will argue until the end of time that there is no such thing as a problem with IF or any such thing as a person that should avoid it. These people are amateurs. I don't get my advice from people that are that dogmatic.
    What I don't understand is you don't like the idea of IFing, yet you keep coming back to IF threads?!?!?! You say that "IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant".... but what about those who are not? As you say us "IFers" can not preach that everyone should IF, but it appears that you are preaching that everyone should follow the "Leptin Reset" program.... Just saying.

    Comment


    • What is the Opinion on going 40 hours then breaking the fast with a small meal then doing a heavy workout?

      My last meal before this morning was Sunday at 4:30. I did 40 hrs until 9 this morning when I woke up had 2 eggs then an hour and half later did a heavy workout while on monday I did a round of cardio. Is this approach counter productive?

      Comment


      • Originally posted by croí View Post
        What I don't understand is you don't like the idea of IFing, yet you keep coming back to IF threads?!?!?! You say that "IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant".... but what about those who are not? As you say us "IFers" can not preach that everyone should IF, but it appears that you are preaching that everyone should follow the "Leptin Reset" program.... Just saying.
        Word to the wise, Croi, engaging DFH is a losing proposition unless you are fond of the "I know you are but what am I?" school of rhetoric.

        Originally posted by DFH
        Maybe if someone is in the gym all the time and admiring their muscles and just wants to tune up a bit, maybe they should do it. Others, who knows? Read up on the leptin reset. A lot of people need to do that instead. As Dr Kruse said, "IF is a terrible idea if you are leptin resistant". It is irresponsible for people to keep pushing this on everyone as if it is the best approach for everyone. I know that there are people that will argue until the end of time that there is no such thing as a problem with IF or any such thing as a person that should avoid it. These people are amateurs. I don't get my advice from people that are that dogmatic.
        Anyone who has read my posts, which in DFH's case isn't readily apparent, should have noticed that I like reading primary documents rather than relying on people's interpretation of them. DFH really doesn't care to provide references, so I had to resort to chasing down "Dr. Kruse" to see what he was going on about. I assume that we are speaking of this Dr. Kruse. By all means, please correct me if I am mistaken, DFH.

        According to the good doctor:

        Originally posted by Dr. Kruse
        Ok so you have heard me talk a lot about leptin. Why is it so important? It is a hormone that controls all of energy metabolism in the body. Not only that it controls all the other hormones in the body as well.
        You would think that such a wide sweeping claim as the above would have a list of references as long as your arm to substantiate it, or, maybe several, or, how about one measly little one? Well, apparently, the truth value of that statement is either self-evident, or axiomatic, because as far as I can determine, there is not a single reference to a peer reviewed study to be found on that page. After this triumph of logic, Kruse takes it as a given that leptin controls all other hormones, and therefore leptin resistance completely shuts down your thyroid gland. If you are having a tough time following that logic, you are not alone.

        Nevertheless, if you failed to be properly impressed with Kruse's torturous logic, he does have a more impressive trick up his sleeve:

        Originally posted by Dr. Kruse
        Testing leptin is easy to do but rarely done in medicine today. The easiest way is to look in the mirror. If you’re way too fat or way too thin guess what? You are leptin resistant, most likely.
        In case you missed it, in Kruse's world, leptin resistance makes you fat and not fat. That is, the inability of your brain to register the leptin being secreted by your adipose fat tissue causes you to overeat and ultimately makes you "way too thin." Kruse doesn't elaborate a mechanism whereby your body decides to either get "way too fat" or "way too thin" due to its leptin resistance, but presumably, it either tosses a coin, or maybe it has something to do with barometric pressure. Perhaps this is Kruse's fifth law of thermodynamics (c)?

        It has been said that a man is known by the company he keeps, and this Dr. Kruse speaks volumes about you DFH.

        So Croi, I think we've actually come to an answer to your question. Your inability to understand DFH stems from the fact that you keep expecting him to make sense. Shame on you.

        -PK
        My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

        Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Jamie Madrox View Post
          What is the Opinion on going 40 hours then breaking the fast with a small meal then doing a heavy workout?

          My last meal before this morning was Sunday at 4:30. I did 40 hrs until 9 this morning when I woke up had 2 eggs then an hour and half later did a heavy workout while on monday I did a round of cardio. Is this approach counter productive?
          Counter productive in what sense?

          -PK
          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
            Counter productive in what sense?

            -PK
            I've read everything I can find on IF for this long a period but nothing on how intense workouts factor into it.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Jamie Madrox View Post
              I've read everything I can find on IF for this long a period but nothing on how intense workouts factor into it.
              It's more trail and error. What works for me may not work for you. I train (heavy weights for 75min, 3 days on, one rest, 3days then rest two) regularly in a fasted state, some times within 24hrs of the last meal but occasionally 40. I've noticed no ill effects.

              Instead of reading so much try it at see how you perform, that's the only way to know for sure. If your workouts suffer you need to eat, if it doesn't then your good.
              http://kitoikitchen.blogspot.com/

              Comment


              • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                Word to the wise, Croi, engaging DFH is a losing proposition unless you are fond of the "I know you are but what am I?" school of rhetoric.

                *Snip.

                It has been said that a man is known by the company he keeps, and this Dr. Kruse speaks volumes about you DFH.

                So Croi, I think we've actually come to an answer to your question. Your inability to understand DFH stems from the fact that you keep expecting him to make sense. Shame on you.

                -PK
                LOL! My apologies for trying to use logic..

                Comment


                • will a little bit of honey in green tea derail my fasting efforts?
                  Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by pacificBeef View Post
                    will a little bit of honey in green tea derail my fasting efforts?
                    Probably not, depending upon how much "a little bit" winds up being in practice.

                    Honey generally consists of equal parts of the monosaccharides fructose and glucose, which essentially makes it table sugar. Table sugar is a disaccharide consisting of the fructose and glucose bound together. The difference is mostly academic as far as your metabolism is concerned because the hydrochloric acid in your stomach readily breaks down sucrose into fructose and glucose, and any intact sucrose that manages to make it through to the small intestine is quickly broken down by the sucrase enzyme into fructose and glucose prior to absorption. By the time honey or table sugar are absorbed into the portal vein on their way to the liver, they are just collections of their constituent monosaccharides.

                    Honey is 20% water. Of the dry mass, honey is approximately 38% fructose, and 31% glucose, which I'll call 70% sucrose. One teaspoon is about 5 grams. So, for all intents and purposes, 1 teaspoon of honey is equivalent to 5g x 0.8 x 0.7, or 5g x .56, roughly half a teaspoon of sugar. Personally, if I were to add sweetener, I would just use table sugar as it is easier to deal with.

                    I would be leery of adding sweetener, however, irrespective of whether you go with honey, table sugar, or some nominally zero calorie chemistry experiment. I don't have any studies to back this up, but I wonder what effect the mere perception of sweetness does to metabolism. There may very well be a feed forward mechanism that affects insulin levels similar to the cephalic insulin response.

                    I would try to wean myself off sweet beverages if I were you. I've personally stopped using Stevia due to the my speculations and I now just add cinnamon to my coffee.

                    -PK
                    My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                    Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                    Comment


                    • PK, I just wanted to say thank you for giving me the science and courage to eat once a day without concern for ill effects. I've never felt healthier, happier or experienced the positive effects of Ghrelin on a consistent basis. This just feels "right" and "clean".

                      (about to go into my fourth week of eating this way)

                      Somehow thank you isn't enough, but thank you. Viewing the world as a predator has changed every aspect of my life for the better. You improved my life in a way that I'm not sure I can effectively communicate without sounding insane.

                      <0

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by pklopp View Post
                        Probably not, depending upon how much "a little bit" winds up being in practice.

                        I would be leery of adding sweetener, however, irrespective of whether you go with honey, table sugar, or some nominally zero calorie chemistry experiment.

                        -PK
                        Thanks for the info. I usually never add sweetener to any of my drinks at all and I haven't had a sugary drink (soda or juice) in the last 3 years but since starting a 20/4 IF, the little honey packets near the coffee at the office kitchen are an exercise in willpower. Also, I seem to taste shortbread cookies in my mouth whenever I exhale but I'm attributing that to mild hallucinations
                        Currently dabbling in: IF, leangains, Starting Strength, 5/3/1

                        Comment


                        • PK,
                          I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

                          I have been eating 1 large meal around the same time everyday for the past 3 weeks. In essence, a 24hr fast. I started to lose weight immediately. However, the past 5 days, it appears that I have stalled.

                          1) Have you experienced this while doing daily 24hr fasts?

                          2) What do you recommend to break this plateau?

                          3) After eating this way for the past 3 weeks, do you believe now would be a good time to input a 40hr fast 1x per week? (possibly to break my plateau?)

                          4) I'm sure within your 1 large meal, you try to intake as much nutrients as possible. Would you please describe a typical meal that you consume?

                          5) Do you take any suppliments? If so, what types?

                          Once again, thanks for the advice!
                          ~Croi

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by LessThanZero View Post
                            PK, I just wanted to say thank you for giving me the science and courage to eat once a day without concern for ill effects. I've never felt healthier, happier or experienced the positive effects of Ghrelin on a consistent basis. This just feels "right" and "clean".

                            (about to go into my fourth week of eating this way)

                            Somehow thank you isn't enough, but thank you. Viewing the world as a predator has changed every aspect of my life for the better. You improved my life in a way that I'm not sure I can effectively communicate without sounding insane.

                            <0

                            Wow! I don't know what to say ... this has to be the most amazing feedback I've ever received.

                            Thank you. I am glad that I was able to be of help to you.

                            -PK
                            My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                            Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by croí View Post
                              pk,
                              i have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

                              I have been eating 1 large meal around the same time everyday for the past 3 weeks. In essence, a 24hr fast. I started to lose weight immediately. However, the past 5 days, it appears that i have stalled.

                              1) have you experienced this while doing daily 24hr fasts?

                              2) what do you recommend to break this plateau?

                              3) after eating this way for the past 3 weeks, do you believe now would be a good time to input a 40hr fast 1x per week? (possibly to break my plateau?)

                              4) i'm sure within your 1 large meal, you try to intake as much nutrients as possible. Would you please describe a typical meal that you consume?

                              5) do you take any suppliments? If so, what types?

                              Once again, thanks for the advice!
                              ~croi
                              bump

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by croí View Post
                                PK,
                                I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

                                I have been eating 1 large meal around the same time everyday for the past 3 weeks. In essence, a 24hr fast. I started to lose weight immediately. However, the past 5 days, it appears that I have stalled.

                                1) Have you experienced this while doing daily 24hr fasts?
                                Yes, I have. Everybody does, eventually. You achieve an equilibrium state where your energy needs are being met by your intake. In the extreme, consider that the only way to consistently and constantly lose weight is to starve, and the natural end point of starvation is death.

                                I would rather that we didn't speak of plateaus, but instead that we would refer to having attained an equilibrium. What most people really mean when they refer to a plateau is that they are dissatisfied with the equilibrium that they have attained. I generally like my current equilibrium state where I hover in the neighbourhood of 180 lbs. The reason it is crucial to reframe one's thinking in terms of equilibria is due to the fact that if you reach an equilibrium state that you are pleased with ... you need to keep doing what you've been doing indefinitely if you intend to maintain that state. This is why calorie restricted diets fail principally ... as soon as people achieve an equilibrium state that they are happy with ... they change their behaviour.

                                Originally posted by croí View Post
                                2) What do you recommend to break this plateau?

                                3) After eating this way for the past 3 weeks, do you believe now would be a good time to input a 40hr fast 1x per week? (possibly to break my plateau?)
                                It is not possible to directly answer these questions because I don't know what you refer to when you say "eating this way." I can answer in general terms, however.

                                Assuming that you ate identical meals every day, then, absolutely, if you were to do a 40 hour fast, you would break through your plateau. You would be decreasing the average number of meals per week, and therefore the average number of calories per day. Your body would need to increase its reliance on stored adipose tissue to meet its energy needs. Your metabolism would probably slow down somewhat to accomodate the new energy inputs it is receiving, and you would once again eventually reach an equilibrium. The question at that point would be whether you would be happy with that equilibrium.

                                Of course, there are confounding issues for females because the menstrual cycle affects hormonal levels profoundly, especially with an eye on water retention. If I were female, I would think that it would take going through at least several menstrual cycles before I could determine the overall effects of my diet somewhat independent of my hormonal fluctuations.

                                I might be able to make other suggestions depending upon your macronutrient breakdown.

                                Originally posted by croí View Post
                                4) I'm sure within your 1 large meal, you try to intake as much nutrients as possible. Would you please describe a typical meal that you consume?
                                This morning I had two Americano coffees with about 1 oz. heavy cream and cinnamon. Later that morning, I had a Dunkin Donuts coffee with the cream and cinammon.

                                Throughout the day I've drunk three 500 ml. bottles of Poland Springs mineral water. Dinner, which will be somewhere between 17:00 and 18:00, will be approx. 1.4 lbs. of beef steak with cauliflower mash. Cauliflower mash being one steamed head of cauliflower with about 1 stick of salted butter, and about 300g of shredded cheddar cheese, all mashed together.

                                Depending on how I feel, I may have a few tablespoons of coconut butter for dessert.

                                Originally posted by croí View Post
                                5) Do you take any suppliments? If so, what types?
                                4000 IU of Vitamin D per day, and that's it.

                                -PK
                                My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                                Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

                                Comment

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