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180degreeghealth on Mark Sission and the PB

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  • 180degreeghealth on Mark Sission and the PB

    180 Degree Health: Mark Sisson

    Interested in what you think.

  • #2
    What do i think? Thanks for asking, but I have not studied research papers deep enough to contribute anything. I do hope however that this thread is veiwed and commented on with no attacks, like what happened in the recent gary taubes thread started by captaineight. This needs sensible and civil discussion.

    Comment


    • #3
      For someone with a healthy metabolism and heightened insulin sensitivity he has a valid point. Insulin is a anabolic hormone, and is needed to shuffle nutrients into the cells of your body.

      From one of the best explanations I've read:

      Right after exercise is when the uptake of carbohydrates is at its peak – a result of increased insulin sensitivity and glucose uptake by muscle contractions via GLUT-4 receptors. Insulin sensitivity is a measure of how efficiently food is absorbed in the cells at a given insulin secretion. In this case, having high insulin sensitivity in your muscle cells, with lower sensitivity in fat cells, preferentially shuttles calories for recovery and growth rather than fat storage.-- Børge Fagerli’s Advanced Concept Diet v2.0 - YewHealth
      Live active healthy lives and you'll do fine on a higher level of carbohydrate intake. For a couch potato with a broken metabolism it might not be such a good idea.
      Sometimes you need to be told the truth in order to be able to see it.

      My journal

      I see grain people...

      Exist in shadow, drifting away.

      Comment


      • #4
        boy, for such a hardheaded health researcher, this guy didn't have a whole lot of actual information to support his bashing of the PB or paleo or weight watchers or whatever else he felt like whining about. i also think he completely missed the point of what PB is all about, which is health, and focused only on weight loss and what little information he could gather in skimming through the introduction to mark's book.

        he has no credibility in my eyes.
        http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

        Comment


        • #5
          As 110% sick as I am of reading anything having to do with "low carb dieting" on these forums, I will say that was a really interesting article. And thank god the focus/concern was in regard to health, not weightloss.

          My little n=1... I personally have some extremely low carb days (not often or on purpose, just spontaneously here and there), but then some days I'm up around 350 grams or so. I like this variety, I feel good and function well in every sense. I'm not sure what the health implications of my carb intake are, but as it's pretty "middle of the road" (and completely natural/unrefined) I don't see any major dangers and assume I'm just fine. I've never had blood work done, so I don't know what my health markers look like.

          Anyway, as I said, fascinating read. Thank you for posting it! You've also given me a new site to enjoy (never been to 180health before). I don't have the knowledge to critique the article, so I won't try -- but I eagerly await the input of those who do!

          Comment


          • #6
            Just looking for some educated insight, is there any validity to this?

            "Glucose is the ultimate source of cellular energy. Short and medium chain saturated fatty acids like butyric acid and lauric acid are the only thing that can compete. If you do not get enough glucose, stress hormones rise. At first this can feel amazing – giving you tireless energy, blunting appetite, and burning up body fat. But over time the wear and tear on the adrenal glands to produce this increased demand for stress hormones catches up with you. When the adrenal energy finally wanes you are left with lower thyroid hormone production – the adrenal hormones oppose the thyroid and even cause the thyroid gland to atrophy (the catecholamines cause the thymus – the epicenter of the immune system to atrophy as well, which would explain my observation that low-carb eating increases proneness to allergies, food allergies, and autoimmune disease)."
            Follow my journey: http://paleoforlupus.blogspot.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by primalrob View Post
              i also think he completely missed the point of what PB is all about, which is health, and focused only on weight loss and what little information he could gather in skimming through the introduction to mark's book.
              I dunno, I felt like he focused on health. His concerns seemed to be the effect of VLC on things like adrenal and thyroid function, hormones, inflamation, etc. If anything, I think he agreed that it works (at least for a while) as a weightloss strategy.

              Comment


              • #8
                I just stumbled onto the site a few days ago and by coincidence that article was posted. I can see his point with regards to carb intake. Certainly the 150gram /day leading to insidious weight gain is a blanket statement that cannot possibly be applied to everyone.

                Comment


                • #9
                  The only advocate of high carb intake I’ll listen to is Anthony Colpo because a) he’s hilarious and b) he’s ripped

                  IIRC this guy has been laughed at plenty for being a pudgy know-it-all

                  I don’t mean to say I’ll only listen to guys with Greek God figures but his saying in this article that people that are lean are actually unhealthy is not something I agree with. All athletes with visible abs are unhealthy? Hard pill to swallow, even if I’m willing to admit that perhaps our bodies rather have a layer of fat (in case shit—think Japan) but without that, I don’t see low body fat % (IN MEN!) to be unhealthy. I think women that can’t menstruate due to low BF may fall under unhealthy but I don’t know enough about it to say for sure.
                  I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I do hope however that this thread is veiwed and commented on with no attacks, like what happened in the recent gary taubes thread started by captaineight. This needs sensible and civil discussion.
                    I have no interest in arguing. I am simply looking for feedback. I have been following the PB for about 6 months (about 50g carbs/day). I have dropped about 30lbs but progress is stalling. This article got me thinking that I should introduce more carbs and possible reduce protein.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by paleoforlupus View Post
                      Just looking for some educated insight, is there any validity to this?

                      "Glucose is the ultimate source of cellular energy. Short and medium chain saturated fatty acids like butyric acid and lauric acid are the only thing that can compete. If you do not get enough glucose, stress hormones rise. At first this can feel amazing – giving you tireless energy, blunting appetite, and burning up body fat. But over time the wear and tear on the adrenal glands to produce this increased demand for stress hormones catches up with you. When the adrenal energy finally wanes you are left with lower thyroid hormone production – the adrenal hormones oppose the thyroid and even cause the thyroid gland to atrophy (the catecholamines cause the thymus – the epicenter of the immune system to atrophy as well, which would explain my observation that low-carb eating increases proneness to allergies, food allergies, and autoimmune disease)."
                      I not would consider the following "educated insight," just experience...

                      The above warnings sound a bit backwards to me. I had the thyroid issues, messed up adrenals, insulin resistance, and I WAS'T low carb. I started low carb as part of fixing those problems and it worked out just fine.

                      I don't have much patience for all these so-called experts that keep saying you should not be low carb because when I read their arguments, they sound backwards. I'm doing what works for me. If I am the backwards one, so be it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Oh i was not suggesting that you were looking for an argument, just other commenters who are not as objective as you or i. I too have lost weight (15kgs) on the blueprint and feel 500% better, however i do miss potato and bacon salad and thai green curry with brown rice (cauliflower rice just doesnt do it for me), this article could be the thing i needed to have these things (home made with no trans fats) without feelin as though im doing my body harm

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by paleoforlupus View Post
                          Just looking for some educated insight, is there any validity to this?

                          "Glucose is the ultimate source of cellular energy. Short and medium chain saturated fatty acids like butyric acid and lauric acid are the only thing that can compete. If you do not get enough glucose, stress hormones rise. At first this can feel amazing – giving you tireless energy, blunting appetite, and burning up body fat. But over time the wear and tear on the adrenal glands to produce this increased demand for stress hormones catches up with you. When the adrenal energy finally wanes you are left with lower thyroid hormone production – the adrenal hormones oppose the thyroid and even cause the thyroid gland to atrophy (the catecholamines cause the thymus – the epicenter of the immune system to atrophy as well, which would explain my observation that low-carb eating increases proneness to allergies, food allergies, and autoimmune disease)."
                          That sound more like the effects of being on a hypoglycemia rollercoaster to me, as in what happens when blood sugar drops low during that scenario. Steady low carb when I am adapted to it doesn't have that effect on me, it gets rid of it.

                          I exchanged a few emails with Matt Stone recently. Really he comes over like any old Joe Bloggs trying to find his own way. He keeps trying new things and changing his ideas. I don't know why he presents himself as an expert who has it all sussed each time he presents his latest views.

                          The last thing he was talking about was eating huge amounts of carbs and sugar, in order to speed up metabolism (I think, the details have slipped my mind).

                          I don't really see his point about people struggling to manage sprints, LHT or whatever. Obviously a couch potato or someone with health problems shouldn't launch straight into tonnes of that at the same time as dealing with low carb flu! So what.

                          And saying that eating low carb downregs your ability to deal with eating lots of carb is hardly news, nor is it evidence against eating low carb.

                          The adrenal info is interesting though, since I went through a period of a lot of physical and emotuional stress which I think affected my thyroid and also during that time I developed a lot of allergies and food intolerances.

                          The boring old "brainwashed" line is tiresome. Does anyone who agrees with or follows the basis of a particular dietary approach have to be called brainwashed, or a mindless follower or whatever?
                          Gluten intolerance and hypermobility syndrome http://www.cfids.org/pdf/joint-hypermobility-guide.pdf

                          Eat food. Mostly real. Enjoy life.

                          Health, energy, wellbeing, vitality, joy, LIFE! Health At Every Size

                          "Do not ask what the world needs; ask yourself what makes you come alive. And then go and do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
                          Harold Whitman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by prymetyme View Post
                            I have no interest in arguing. I am simply looking for feedback. I have been following the PB for about 6 months (about 50g carbs/day). I have dropped about 30lbs but progress is stalling. This article got me thinking that I should introduce more carbs and possible reduce protein.
                            you can increase the carbs if you want. the carbohydrate curve is a weight loss guide, not a commandment. what the PB is really about is making sure that the food you eat (carby or not) is the right food. don't let your carbs come from grains and such. eat a sweet potato or down some squash.

                            regarding your earlier question on glucose, it is a good source of energy. but, notice that he also mentioned short and medium chained saturated fatty acids as a competitor. and, the body can convert protein to glucose through gluconeogenesis...so keep that protein coming.

                            @ciep: i get that he covered the adrenal and thyroid function, but not in terms of the Primal Blueprint or with any actual science beyond what he has found to be true. he's lumping this in with any other low carb dieting without actually learning about it. he may make some points i agree with, but that doesn't mean that i, personally, will take anything away from him...particularly when he uses the '5 billions people on the planet eat high carb' argument.
                            seems to me like he's looking for reasons to disagree with certain ways of life. and that's fine; debate is terrific...i just don't think he's taking in the whole picture.
                            http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by prymetyme View Post
                              I have no interest in arguing. I am simply looking for feedback. I have been following the PB for about 6 months (about 50g carbs/day). I have dropped about 30lbs but progress is stalling. This article got me thinking that I should introduce more carbs and possible reduce protein.
                              I'm finding the same thing, and this article makes me wonder too. I'm not sure if I shouldn't make some similar changes.

                              Comment

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