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Intermittent Fasting - A Primer ( Part 2 )

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  • #16
    I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
    Insight? Advice?
    --Trish (Bork)
    TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
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    • #17
      Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
      I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
      Insight? Advice?
      The idea is not to consume the missing meal's calories you fasted over at feeding time when you break the fast. If your after calorie reduction you need to show some restraint and eat your normal amount of calories. It's tough but it can be done. Eat something with more bulk and less calories.

      My after 18hr IF meal last night was 1/2lb ground beef taco meat, 1/2 head culi rice, 1/2 can sliced olives, 3 serrano peppers and 2 glasses of water. I was quite full and satisfied.
      http://kitoikitchen.blogspot.com/

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      • #18
        Originally posted by kitoi View Post
        The idea is not to consume the missing meal's calories you fasted over at feeding time when you break the fast. If your after calorie reduction you need to show some restraint and eat your normal amount of calories. It's tough but it can be done. Eat something with more bulk and less calories.

        My after 18hr IF meal last night was 1/2lb ground beef taco meat, 1/2 head culi rice, 1/2 can sliced olives, 3 serrano peppers and 2 glasses of water. I was quite full and satisfied.
        I agree with this. I fast until 6 p.m. every day. Then eat one ďnormalĒ meal (large salad, meat or cheese, sometimes a vegetable, sometimes a small starch, glass of wine), and after I let it settle (while I do dishes, help kids with homework, walk the dog, etc.), if I still feel hungry, Iíll have some blueberries with cream, or a tablespoon of almond butter, etc. I drink water, plain tea, or coffee during the day. Thatís it. I think a general rule within the IF framework could be total daily calories not exceeding desired weight multiplied by 10. Once I started doing IF on a one meal per day basis, I stopped getting hungry, and can easily get full to stuffed on 1200 to 1500 calories. Iím 6í3Ē 172 pounds. I found that 16/8 (just skipping breakfast) didnít really do that much, and kept me hungry. Going out to 20 hours makes a big difference. The four hour eating window, as long as you eat low-moderate carb, wonít allow you to binge because it is so easy to feel satiation.

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        • #19
          Yes, having a smaller eating window made all the difference in easily creating a calorie deficit for me.

          I started out IFing 14/10, then gradually stretched it to 16/8 and now I easily do 18 hour fasts, occasionally stretching to 20 in the last two weeks.

          I noticed I was overeating when my eating window was too big and too early in the day. Now I aim to eat after noon and have a six hour eating window or less. I'm flexible with this as needed for vacation, etc.

          I am in the process of moving my eating window later in the day, since I've noticed I can get the munchies around 7pm, otherwise.

          Boy, does food taste good to me! I savor it much more now that I'm not eating all the time...two meals is perfect for me.
          Last edited by Dragonfly; 04-19-2011, 08:05 AM.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
            I IF almost daily (usually from dinner to breakfast, about 16 hours), however I fail to see where there's a calorie reduction. I do a 24 hour fast once a month, and have no problem getting all my calories in at one meal. In fact, I can easily tuck away over 1200 in about 10 mins.
            Insight? Advice?
            Eat s l o w e r !

            No distractions (reading, computer, TV).

            Chew every mouthful and really savor your food!

            Make sure you are well-hydrated during the fast.
            Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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            • #21
              Originally posted by ciavyn View Post
              However, just to give an example: this morning I made my usual bacon and eggs, and had coffee with real cream -- the heavy whipping kind. Yum. However, I was stuffed with my three eggs and bacon. I could not eat anything more. So how would you eat so much at one sitting to make up your calories for the day, when even if I ate enough for a meal and a half, I'd be sick from eating so much food? Does the body just get used to it? Is it a growing into period where the stomach just stretches to accommodate? I've learned over the years NOT to stuff myself, as is the habit with my six-doughnuts-per-sitting family members (I'm the only thin one in my family). Now I wonder, how do you do it otherwise?
              Your breakfast sounds perfect. My breakfast ( as sit here and type ) is a cafe Americano with organic heavy whipping cream ( I'll see your heavy whipping cream and raise you an organic! ).

              In my original post, I outlined a very gradual migration path from a presumed three meal a day regimen, to an end state where only one meal was eaten. This was a multi week process principally to allow the body to adjust to the eating pattern. Rome was not built in a day.

              When I go on winter vacation to the beach, I know that I will need to be pretty liberal with the sun block once I get there. This is not because I am somehow allergic to the sun and cannot tolerate it, it is just that my body has become habituated to the winter solar radiation levels. In the pre-technological age, solar radiation would gradually wax and wane with the position of the earth in its orbit about the sun. When I get on an airplane in the dead of winter to emerge hours later on a sunbathed beach, this is the functional equivalent of the earth making a quantum leap in its orbit. That is patently impossible, and my body is not equipped to handle that contingency. It is not surprising then, that I burn. If, however, I simply take the natural, gradual path from winter to summer solar radiation levels ( i.e. I merely wait for summer to come, as opposed to forcing the issue ), then the same level of solar radiation would not cause me to burn, because I would have become habituated to it due to the process that I undertook.

              The exact same gradual habituation process needs to occur when you change your eating pattern. You could just dive headfirst into it and decide that tomorrow you will only eat once. If you were to do that, I would expect you to get extremely hungry, uncomfortable, and abandon the attempt shortly thereafter, probably concluding that intermittent fasting was rubbish.

              As a matter of habituation, you would expect changes in your hormonal makeup. As this happens, the way in which you metabolize energy will change. Dboxing has alluded to some other threads here where people get up in arms over the fact that IF affects hormone levels, specifically thyroid hormones. If we understand T3 and T4 hormones to be the body's furnace control, shouldn't we expect some fiddling with the furnace when we start to change the body's fuel sources and timing? The net effect of all this is that when the body is in a nutrient dense environment, it can afford to be profligate. When energy is more hard to come by, the body adapts it's energy consumption. One very important way for nutrient density to be detected is via the rate of feeding episodes. So, if you are constantly eating, this will affect your hormonal balance in such a way as to indicate to your body that there's food-a-plenty about, with all the attendant metabolic implications of that.

              As others have mentioned, the principal aim of intermittent fasting is not to attempt to eat "a days worth of calories" in one meal. You should eat to the point of satiety during your evening meal. I suspect that this meal will overall be less food than you would otherwise consume during the day. This is why I specifically outlined that we would not concern ourselves with calorie counting or macronutrient ratios. Just let yourself get accustomed to the fasting, then start tweaking. My next post will outline the tweaking.

              -PK
              My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

              Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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              • #22
                Thank you all for your detailed responses. I will continue to take all this in. I never even considered the way of eating, but the food prep and time it would save is so appealing to me. I am looking for ways to gain more time for myself with my hectic schedule (I am currently cutting back on other demands on my time) and this is fantastic. Must ponder -- and thank you PK for any additional information you are able to share.
                The Sedition of Sisyphus: Go Find Another Rock

                Griff's Cholesterol Primer

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                • #23
                  Another fantastic post! I'm not so sure that the 1/2 hr per week process will work for most people who work regular hours, though. I'm not about to try one meal per day (I seem to lean out just fine on an 8 hr eating window), but what worked for me was step 1: small zero-carb breakfast like two fried eggs, coffee w/cream. If I add a banana I'll get hungry before lunch though. Step 2: IF till noon. I don't have a step 3, I haven't gotten that far yet. I'm curious what benefits to fasting beyond about 18 hrs are though - my understanding from reading leangains was that there are diminishing returns after that point.
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                    Another fantastic post! I'm not so sure that the 1/2 hr per week process will work for most people who work regular hours, though. I'm not about to try one meal per day (I seem to lean out just fine on an 8 hr eating window), but what worked for me was step 1: small zero-carb breakfast like two fried eggs, coffee w/cream. If I add a banana I'll get hungry before lunch though. Step 2: IF till noon. I don't have a step 3, I haven't gotten that far yet. I'm curious what benefits to fasting beyond about 18 hrs are though - my understanding from reading leangains was that there are diminishing returns after that point.
                    Yeah, my reason behind eating at 1pm is that it coincides when most people here go to lunch. I eat alone mostly, but it’d be odd to step out to lunch any later, you might as well just skip eating and do so when you get home, which I did a few times with bad results (perhaps for not gradually pushing back the eating window like pklopp suggests)

                    I hate my job, so skipping the one hour a day where I feel sane (break) is not an option. The only thing I think might work is taking my break as per usual, but not eating, walking or reading instead, and then eating my food later in the day at my desk, which lots of people do, but it would probably arise questions from my boss. “You were gone for an hour, but you’re eating now? At 3pm?” assuming I went on my usual 1 to 2pm break.

                    Or maybe he’ll say nothing at all. Only one way to find out…
                    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                      Another fantastic post! I'm not so sure that the 1/2 hr per week process will work for most people who work regular hours, though.
                      Thank you!

                      I was thinking about how to work with people's schedules and the 1/2 hour progression, but I don't really know any way around it. I suppose that people may need to resort to self contained meals that can be eaten at ones desk. I'm thinking hard boiled eggs, some sliced cheese, and other similar breakfast items. The progression is intended to ease people into the eating pattern. Some may not need it, I expect that most will need some sort of adjustment period.

                      I'm not about to try one meal per day (I seem to lean out just fine on an 8 hr eating window), but what worked for me was step 1: small zero-carb breakfast like two fried eggs, coffee w/cream. If I add a banana I'll get hungry before lunch though.
                      Bananas are pretty carb heavy, I don't doubt that they would induce hunger.

                      I'm curious what benefits to fasting beyond about 18 hrs are though - my understanding from reading leangains was that there are diminishing returns after that point.
                      This is preempting part 3, but, the benefits relate principally to free fatty acid oxidation. Of course, this being just a teaser you will have to wait for that post .

                      -PK
                      My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                      Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                        Another fantastic post! I'm not so sure that the 1/2 hr per week process will work for most people who work regular hours, though. I'm not about to try one meal per day (I seem to lean out just fine on an 8 hr eating window), but what worked for me was step 1: small zero-carb breakfast like two fried eggs, coffee w/cream. If I add a banana I'll get hungry before lunch though. Step 2: IF till noon. I don't have a step 3, I haven't gotten that far yet. I'm curious what benefits to fasting beyond about 18 hrs are though - my understanding from reading leangains was that there are diminishing returns after that point.
                        I am in the same boat as you, on step 2 and trying to figure out if step 3 truly will make that big of a difference. I have been able to get to an 18 hour window on days that I don't train, but if I do not eat within an hour of lifting weights, I seriously bonk and I spend the rest of the day trying to get rid of the feeling by eating.

                        pklopp, what type of training do you do? Is it heavy resistance, sprinting, yoga?
                        People too weak to follow their own dreams will always try to discourage others.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by IcarianVX View Post
                          pklopp, what type of training do you do? Is it heavy resistance, sprinting, yoga?
                          I used to be a gym rat, but due to travelling a lot, I had problems keeping up with training that required specific equipment, and here I'm speaking of rudimentary things like bars and weights. Now, I'm mostly into bodyweight exercises with a definite gymnastic slant to them. So mostly variations on handstand pushups, handstands, various pushups, muscleups, and pullups. The one thing that I do in the gym is deadlift, since I can't come up with any bodyweight alternatives.

                          I am dying to sprint, but I'm terrified of it due to numerous Achilles issues in the past. If you don't hear from me in a while, I may very well have expired in a fiery, horrifying Achilles incident!

                          -PK
                          My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                          Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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                          • #28
                            How do you do muscles ups without equipment? Don't you need rings?
                            My journal where I attempt to overcome Chrohns and make good food as well

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by strom View Post
                              How do you do muscles ups without equipment? Don't you need rings?
                              Ring muscle ups, yes, fixed bar muscle ups, no, just a bar. The thinking is to eliminate as many dependencies as possible. Not all dependencies can be eliminated, hence, when I want to stress my entire body from fingers to toes, I resort to deadlifts, which do require a certain amount of infrastructure.

                              -PK
                              My blog : cogitoergoedo.com

                              Interested in Intermittent Fasting? This might help: part 1, part 2, part 3.

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                              • #30
                                Curious, PK, do you find that drinking coffee with HWC affects your fast in any way? I usually have coffee with HWC and some coconut oil, as I did this morning, and I find that very satisfying for several hours...but is that going against the whole point?
                                The Sedition of Sisyphus: Go Find Another Rock

                                Griff's Cholesterol Primer

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