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Vegetables - Do We Really Need Them?

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  • #31
    Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
    This is kinda why I want folks such as yourself to provide us less enthusiastic-about-veg folks with a list of "eat these, asshole" veggies...?
    I eats broc and spinach on the regular, I supp with sweet potatoes, am I good to go?
    Pretty much. Huzzah!

    I also like to get in a modest amount of fermentable fiber. Jicama is good, I use chicory root when I can't find jicama.
    Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

    Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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    • #32
      Originally posted by lizch View Post
      He did? I can't find any news item about that. When did it happen?
      Liz, it was about a month ago. Link in this thread to a hilarious thread of The Bear extolling his all-meat diet.

      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread25709.html

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      • #33
        I can't believe people are actually having a debate about whether or not vegetables are good for you on a supposed "health forum". ffs. lol.

        Can you live on bacon and eggs and mayonnaise (I'm assuming you don't eat bread & grains, etc.). Sure, you can survive, but why would you even want to? Why not eat you vegetables, are we a bunch of children here? Vegetables are lovely. Particularly if you know how to cook them.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by captaineight View Post
          I can't believe people are actually having a debate about whether or not vegetables are good for you on a supposed "health forum". ffs. lol.
          Damn straight! Eat your vegetables, and your healthy whole grains, and make sure your bacon is low fat. This is a "health forum," people.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
            This is kinda why I want folks such as yourself to provide us less enthusiastic-about-veg folks with a list of "eat these, asshole" veggies...?
            I eats broc and spinach on the regular, I supp with sweet potatoes, am I good to go?
            You could survive, and much better than someone who eats no vegetables. But is it optimal?

            I think a large variety of vegetables is optimal. They all contain difference vitamins and minerals that are used by the human body, as well as a large variety of phytochemicals that have have antioxidant, antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral and anticarcinogenic properties, as well as natural fiber and roughage.

            Although paleolithic man did eat meat, I think it's a mistake to assume a large portion of his diet was not raw vegetables and fruit gathered from foraging (note this is different from calorie content - I'm talking about volume of food). It would have been much easier to "catch" and prepare, although obviously not as calorie dense (which probably means ancient man ate a lot of them). As well as insects, mosses, grass, nuts, berries, roots, grubs, fungus, berries, nuts, seeds etc. In short: an extremely varied diet. That's how the human body has evolved: to be opportunistic omnivores that can eat, and make-use of a massive variety of food. I think you'd be making a mistake to limit your vegetable intake to spinach and brocolli. I'm sure you could be quite healthy doing that, mind you. But the question is what is optimal?

            My 2c.
            Last edited by captaineight; 04-12-2011, 04:42 PM.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by aktres View Post
              Damn straight! Eat your vegetables, and your healthy whole grains, and make sure your bacon is low fat. This is a "health forum," people.
              Well mate, you do it your way and I'll do it my way. If someone really wants to eat no vegetables then all the power to them. They can do what they want. Just quietly though, I think they're kidding themselves.

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              • #37
                My advice is just listen to your body. I think that is really what is being asked here. "is it ok for me to not eat vegetables if I don't feel like it?"

                I say yes. Force feeding yourself things you don't want to eat on the basis of health in my mind is no different from starving yourself on a low fat vegan diet on the basis of health. One might be better than the other but neither makes us want to stay on that way of eating.

                Some days I eat nothing but meat. Some days I want some veggies. Some days I event want a big old salad. I make an effort to listen to my body and what it wants rather than telling it what it is having. It takes time to re-establish that connection but I have found it pays off huge in my life.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by captaineight View Post
                  You could survive, and much better than someone who eats no vegetables. But is it optimal?

                  I think a large variety of vegetables is optimal. They all contain difference vitamins and minerals that are used by the human body, as well as a large variety of phytochemicals that have have antioxidant, antibacterial, antifungal, antiviral and anticarcinogenic properties, as well as natural fiber and roughage.

                  Although paleolithic man did eat meat, I think it's a mistake to assume a large portion of his diet was not raw vegetables and fruit gathered from foraging (note this is different from calorie content - I'm talking about volume of food). It would have been much easier to "catch" and prepare, although obviously not as calorie dense (which probably means ancient man ate a lot of them). As well as insects, mosses, grass, nuts, berries, roots, grubs, fungus, berries, nuts, seeds etc. In short: an extremely varied diet. That's how the human body has evolved: to be opportunistic omnivores that can eat, and make-use of a massive variety of food. I think you'd be making a mistake to limit your vegetable intake to spinach and brocolli. I'm sure you could be quite healthy doing that, mind you. But the question is what is optimal?

                  My 2c.
                  Cap8, do you really think you are going to take down this huge forum, and a bunch of people (Sisson, Wolf, etc.) who've built careers studying this stuff based on your ruminations? We eat a LOT of bacon and eggs, and we are LOTS healthier than we used to be. You aren't exactly brimming with scientific evidence that we are wrong, are you?
                  And we hear voices like yours every day, pretty much everyone we know says that same crap you are saying, and it didn't really make us healthy. I'd suggest you hit the library.
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                    Cap8, do you really think you are going to take down this huge forum, and a bunch of people (Sisson, Wolf, etc.) who've built careers studying this stuff based on your ruminations? We eat a LOT of bacon and eggs, and we are LOTS healthier than we used to be. You aren't exactly brimming with scientific evidence that we are wrong, are you?
                    And we hear voices like yours every day, pretty much everyone we know says that same crap you are saying, and it didn't really make us healthy. I'd suggest you hit the library.
                    I'm not trying to "bring down the forum". I'm trying, as I have done for years, to dispel pseudo-scientific gym-junkie mythology.

                    I think the core premise of a primal diet is a good one. Protein, vegetables and raw fiber, minus the crap that comes into our diets in the last fraction of time in the history of human evolution. That makes perfect sense and I'm all on board. What doesn't make perfect sense is the claim that this is equivalent to a diet of butter-fried bacon with zero/tiny vegetable intake; although I'm sure our paleolithic ancestors would have scoffed that down given half the opportunity!
                    Last edited by captaineight; 04-12-2011, 09:36 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Dualhammers View Post
                      My advice is just listen to your body. I think that is really what is being asked here. "is it ok for me to not eat vegetables if I don't feel like it?"

                      I say yes. Force feeding yourself things you don't want to eat on the basis of health in my mind is no different from starving yourself on a low fat vegan diet on the basis of health. One might be better than the other but neither makes us want to stay on that way of eating.

                      Some days I eat nothing but meat. Some days I want some veggies. Some days I event want a big old salad. I make an effort to listen to my body and what it wants rather than telling it what it is having. It takes time to re-establish that connection but I have found it pays off huge in my life.
                      This is exactly what I do. I am in a very heavy veggie phase right now - I just want them and they taste delicious and are very satisfying. I have gone through other phases where I crave tons of meat and fat.

                      I would imagine that we evolved in the presence of highly variable nutrient sources (location, seasonality, herd migrations) and ate and often benefited from that variety. My body craves variety, and now that my appetite and cravings aren't deranged by grains and sugar - I listen to what my body asks for
                      Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                      http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                      • #41
                        When I think about foods I deeply crave/need (vs sugar cravings), I always wanted liver, bacon, red meat, and walnuts; while I've plowed throgh acres of lettuce and other veg, I never have that deep need for them. Berries, apples, I enjoy in small amounts, but most other fruit doesn't call to me-- this from the kid of four generations of apple-growers.
                        This time, like all times, is a very good one, if we but know what to do with it. Ralph Waldo Emerson

                        Any given day you are surrounded by 10,000 idiots.
                        Lao Tsu, founder of Taoism

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                        • #42
                          If we are just talking about survival then no. If we are talking OPTIMAL HEALTH I would say yes. There are benefits to eating them like polyphenols, potassium, antioxidants, fibre (debatable but probably beneficial in moderate amounts), vitamin C etc etc. To be honest I would find it difficult to hit all my nutrients every day based on nutrition data if I didn't eat some veg and fruit to a lesser extent.

                          Not to mention they add variety to your diet and an all meat fare sounds boring as hell to me and sub-optimal IMHO.

                          I probably don't get my "5 servings a day" every day but eat more starchy root veg (that for some reason doesn't count in guidelines?!?!?!) then your salad type. Like Stabby said why eat extra protein to make glucose, when you can just eat glucose?
                          "My mom made two dishes: Take it or Leave it." -- Stephen Wright, comedian

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                          • #43
                            Why do you think it is debatable whether fibre is good for us or not?

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by captaineight View Post
                              Why do you think it is debatable whether fibre is good for us or not?
                              Most all of us eat drastically less fiber than before and have much better digestion, and fiber is another substance for which a ton of health claims are made and very little hard evidence that it is healthy. It does slow digestion of starchy foods, thus moderating insulin spikes, but other than that - ?
                              If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by captaineight View Post
                                Why do you think it is debatable whether fibre is good for us or not?
                                Read GCBC, the need for fiber is another CW myth.

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