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Vegetables - Do We Really Need Them?

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  • #16
    I surely need the vitamins and other beneficial traits of veggies for my health. They can't all be replaced purely by meat.
    It's just this entire low carb craziness made me afraid of them
    Before I was scared of how much fat is needed.What's the minimal for a sedentary person,and then there's the issue of fat from oils&other substances and fat within meat,fish,eggs. Especially since I like fatty fish and I mean the really fattier ones!not the 'low-fat' fatty fish like salmon&tuna, but herring,mackerel and smoked eel.

    Now I fear the amount of fat and veggies! Basically eating and not exercising and no IF'ing,which all Primals seem to be doing.
    I wish I had a Primal mentor,preferrably one who falls into my category,so I might stop the anxiety&stressing in my head of becoming 'fat' again with no exercising.

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    • #17
      Zeroing In On Health – The Blog! ZC Icon Dies in Car Crash

      I like this blog. This article in particular addresses this thread topic.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by elwyne View Post
        A lot of people cite the Inuit as being veggie free but this has pretty much been debunked - Hunt Gather Love has done a few writeups on the topic.

        I find that most people who ask "do we need veggies" don't like veggies and are looking for an excuse not to eat them. If you want optimum health, you will need to eat a variety of foods of all types, and that includes plants. AND offal. If you don't like plant food, or fish or meat or fat or whatever, you don't have to eat them but don't pretend you're healthier because of it.
        I think the argument is this…

        - plant matter and fruits aren’t all they’re made out to be (I agree with this)

        - you can derive all nutrient and mineral needs from meat alone (that’s debatable)

        However, if we were to assume that the second idea is indeed right, this would therefore make vegetables “useless” and we wouldn’t NEED to include them in our diets.

        I sort of fall under the group of people that doesn’t absolutely love vegs, though there’s quite a few that I don’t really need or want to part ways with, but if I absolutely HAD to I think I could make due with just meat. It’s important to note that a lot of these “all meat” cultures really don’t have a choice, they eat what’s available.

        I’m content with not forcing myself to eat a WIDE VARIETY of food (another thing I kind of have an issue with… and feel like I’m being preached at hah) because “we need variety” but if a, b, and c all offer the same exact component, why can’t I just eat one of them all the time? Unless it’s proven that the body does indeed require variety (and it doesn’t otherwise entire cultures that eat the same three things would be non-existent) then I think we need to drop that bit.

        I think it’d be fun to include a list of “must have” veggies from a nutritional perspective (not the noms perspective) I’d like to hear especially from veggie lovers…

        I personally routinely include: spinach, kale, broccoli, tomatoes, onions, garlic, avocado (a fruit.. whatever, can we convert this to a vegetable already? Same with tomatoes, call whoever is responsible for this re-class) asparagus and sweet potatoes.. and to a lesser degree I like mixed greens, carrots, cauliflower… why do I eat these? I've read (or been told) that they're great nutritionally, and through regular usage I've developed a taste for all of them.

        But I’ll never turn down a veggie platter if it’s served to me, I just won’t go out of my way to make it for myself.
        Last edited by iniQuity; 04-12-2011, 08:33 AM. Reason: typos
        I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Dutchie View Post
          I surely need the vitamins and other beneficial traits of veggies for my health. They can't all be replaced purely by meat.
          It's just this entire low carb craziness made me afraid of them
          Before I was scared of how much fat is needed.What's the minimal for a sedentary person,and then there's the issue of fat from oils&other substances and fat within meat,fish,eggs. Especially since I like fatty fish and I mean the really fattier ones!not the 'low-fat' fatty fish like salmon&tuna, but herring,mackerel and smoked eel.

          Now I fear the amount of fat and veggies! Basically eating and not exercising and no IF'ing,which all Primals seem to be doing.
          I wish I had a Primal mentor,preferrably one who falls into my category,so I might stop the anxiety&stressing in my head of becoming 'fat' again with no exercising.
          Hey Dutchie! DO NOT be afraid of vegetables! It's very hard for non-starchy vegetables to make you fat, and even the starchy ones usually come with enough fiber that they are difficult to overeat for most people I think (except maybe in cases where they set off hypoglycemia and/or sugar cravings). If you want to eat them, prepare them with some good fat and eat. As for fat, you may want to check out the 'counting calories' thread. But I think the main thing is to be eating some kind of high-quality animal product at each meal.

          I don't IF. Sometimes I end up 'inadvertently' IF'ing because of my schedule or I'm not that hungry (I've never been a 'three meals a day' person anyway), but I never plan them and I've still been seeing changes in body composition. There are a lot of us that don't. Maybe you could start a different thread or a journal?

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          • #20
            I don't remember if Taubes said it in GCBC but I know he mentions in Why We Get Fat that there is no scientific evidence showing that vegetables will improve your health. I personally like the taste of vegetables with my meat and I don't think it hurts your diet at all. Some of the benefits are that it can help alleviate constipation (when you eat mostly protein and fat people tend to get constipated), and veggies will also help balance your PH since meat is mostly acidifying and veggies are generally more alkaline.
            "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

            People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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            • #21
              I won't rehash the excellent points already made. Personally, I need them to not be bored to death with my food. Vegetables offer so much variety of taste and texture!

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              • #22
                I just had some aspargus in bacon topped with hollandaise - mmmmmmmmm - and I'm going to say, yes, I need veggies.
                If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Adrianag View Post
                  What do you think? Do we really need to eat vegetables? Based on GCBC it appears we really don't need them but I suspect most primal/paleo folks are hanging on to them as the last vestiges of CW and for variety and for "insurance".

                  Then again, there is no way to know for sure that Sisson et al have it 100% correct so keeping veggies in the mix gives us a bit of insurance I guess. That and some carefully selected supplements.
                  Yes, we need them, is the short answer.

                  As someone else already addressed, do you we need them to survive? Possibly not. But you can survive on Big Macs and Coke if you want to. That's no way to live.

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                  • #24
                    Ok, then my question is why do we need them? What will happen if we don't eat vegetables? Will be have less quality of life? Will we die an earlier death than we would without them?

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                    • #25
                      I am betting that most of this forum are getting sub-optimal amounts of potassium.

                      Simply because there were people who didn't eat vegetables and they didn't completely fucking die doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been better with some vegetables. There is good stuff in them, especially green vegetables like broccoli and spinach. And root vegetables like sweet potato provide a good source of carbs. Is anyone going to try to convince me that it is better to eat excess protein to turn that into the glucose we need than it is to just eat the glucose?
                      Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

                      Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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                      • #26
                        It's interesting that people tend to condemn fruit without considering that vegetables might not be that great, either. I realize that the massive differences in sugar content have a lot to do with that, but still.
                        I really love (some) vegetables, though - so I'd never give them up. 80% of the reason behind me eating them is simply because I enjoy it, 20% is that 'well, I should probably eat some vegetables' voice in the back of my head. Parsnips 4 lyf.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Adrianag View Post
                          Then again, there is no way to know for sure that Sisson et al have it 100% correct so keeping veggies in the mix gives us a bit of insurance I guess. That and some carefully selected supplements.
                          If you look at the PB Food Pyramid the foundation is veggies and fruit.
                          iHerb.com 1st time buyer $5 discount code: GIS836

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                            I am betting that most of this forum are getting sub-optimal amounts of potassium.

                            Simply because there were people who didn't eat vegetables and they didn't completely fucking die doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been better with some vegetables. There is good stuff in them, especially green vegetables like broccoli and spinach. And root vegetables like sweet potato provide a good source of carbs. Is anyone going to try to convince me that it is better to eat excess protein to turn that into the glucose we need than it is to just eat the glucose?
                            This is kinda why I want folks such as yourself to provide us less enthusiastic-about-veg folks with a list of "eat these, asshole" veggies...?
                            I eats broc and spinach on the regular, I supp with sweet potatoes, am I good to go?
                            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                            • #29
                              I need the lettuce for my bacon, egg, and guacamole wraps...
                              PB Stats:
                              Started 5/10/10
                              Starting Weight: 215
                              Current Weight (1/25/11): 180
                              Goal Weight: 160

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                              • #30
                                Life would be intolerable without onions, garlic and ginger. I enjoy all sorts of vegies so would not entertain dropping them. Finally, the micronutrient argument is persuasive. Don't we all want to thrive, not just survive?
                                Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                                Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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