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Isn't (dairy) milk garbage?

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  • Isn't (dairy) milk garbage?

    I noticed several references in Primal Blueprint Nutrition and some other forums on the site about drinking (dairy) milk, as in raw vs organic, or after a workout, or whatever.

    My question is ..why?

    I thought maybe I missed something and went back through my PB book in case I did.*

    I'm not sure why anyone would touch this stuff, or want to. Unless you are an infant, there is nothing primal about it.

    I admit I used to be a milk addict, and didn't know better. It was wrecking my health. The doc that got me on low carb insisted that I give it up. I had very high triglycerides, insulin resistance, high blood insulin levels, and was huge. In my docs exact words, "milk is poison, to you..." (He was referring to the insulin resistance, which pointed toward Primal-style minimal carb).

    It seems that in terms of Primal, milk belongs in the trash as much as grains. Why drink it?

  • #2
    Well, dairy isn't strict, orthodox Paleo, but it is in a Primal "grey area." Generally, the advice is to do 30 days without it, see how you feel, and treat dairy accordingly.

    There are a couple issues with dairy: lactose intolerance, casein intolerance, insulin response, and toxins.

    If you are lactose or casein intolerant, no you shouldn't drink milk. However, the higher fat dairy products (cream, creme fraiche, butter, etc) are very low in these compounds and may be well tolerated even if milk isn't. This is made even more complicated by the fact that in many people, lactose intolerance clears up once gluten is removed from the diet.

    Regarding the insulin, keep in mind that while some people do Primal as a VLC diet, others have higher carb needs, especially if they are very active. In particular, milk's insulin spiking properties can be very useful if you're working on adding muscle.

    As for toxins, that is why it is so critical to buy organic dairy, especially from pastured cows.

    On the other hand, dairy (especially raw butter, cream, or ghee from grass-fed cows) has some unique nutritional benefits, like vitamin K and CLA. And cultured dairy products like traditionally made yogurt and kefir are valuable sources of probiotic organisms.

    Personally, I eat butter and ghee daily, a couple ounces of hard cheese a week, and drink kefir or yogurt as needed to keep my digestion functioning properly - some weeks that means every day, other weeks it means that I don't have any.
    Last edited by theholla; 04-04-2011, 07:29 AM.
    The Primal Holla! Eating fat. Getting lean. Being awesome.

    You were sick, but now you're well, and there's work to do. - Kilgore Trout

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    • #3
      Originally posted by theholla View Post
      ....

      Regarding the insulin, keep in mind that while some people do Primal as a VLC diet, others have higher carb needs, especially if they are very active. In particular, milk's insulin spiking properties can be very useful if you're working on adding muscle.
      ..
      thanks. I guess the above clip explains it very well. In my case, I'm VLC and milk is bad news.

      I'm fine with hard, imported cheeses as a snack too, been doing that all along. Those are no/low carb.

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      • #4
        1. I like it and I have no negative reactions to it.
        2. Lots of good vitamins and minerals (from raw, pasture-fed milk)
        3. Pro-biotic properties of yogurt and kefir
        4. immune system benefits
        5. lots of fat and protein
        6. keeps you hydrated longer than water


        ... That's all I've got for now. It's not for everyone, but that's a personal choice that should maybe not be attacked quite so strongly.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by jfreaksho View Post


          ... That's all I've got for now. It's not for everyone, but that's a personal choice that should maybe not be attacked quite so strongly.
          No worries. I'm just trying to understand the mixed messages.

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          • #6
            Also many people who are "lactose intolerant" are fine with raw milk. Or even pasteurized non-homogenized milk. The raw milk contains an enzyme that digests the lactose for you. Homogenization changes the properties of milk in a weird way.

            I havent drunk milk regularly in years although every once in a while I'll have a glass, but I use cream, butter, yogurt and sour cream regularly
            MTA: because it is rare I dont have more to say

            "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - my daughter Age 7

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            • #7
              i think it has to be case by case basis, modify your diet depending what works for you

              i could never stand the taste of milk, but love milk products, butter, yogurt, cheese, etc..

              tried to give up milk products for 4 days and realized that all I'm left with is meat, veg and fruit; the diet is challenging enough with all the shopping and constant meal prep; eliminating dairy for me made it too hard to maintain a decent quality of life balance

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              • #8
                One thing i dont get is how the milk on the shelves now canlast a week or so, but the organic milk on the shelves can make it till June. What the f$ck is that?

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                • #9
                  I was mainly asking about drinking milk, not really the other products.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by runnergal View Post
                    Also many people who are "lactose intolerant" are fine with raw milk. Or even pasteurized non-homogenized milk. The raw milk contains an enzyme that digests the lactose for you. Homogenization changes the properties of milk in a weird way.

                    I havent drunk milk regularly in years although every once in a while I'll have a glass, but I use cream, butter, yogurt and sour cream regularly
                    I support this message

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by milkycereal View Post
                      One thing i dont get is how the milk on the shelves now canlast a week or so, but the organic milk on the shelves can make it till June. What the f$ck is that?
                      Organic milk is generally ultrapasteurized. One of my big gripes about it. Because there are fewer sources and fewer distribution channels they ultrapasteurized so it will last longer. Safeway quit u/p their organic milk and half the time it is spoiled 3 days before sellby.
                      MTA: because it is rare I dont have more to say

                      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - my daughter Age 7

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                      • #12
                        I used to be pretty anti-dairy and didn't touch any of it for several months. After lifting heavy weight though I am on board and think it helps recovery. Yes I drink milk, but pretty much only after deadlift or squat workouts. Raw would be ideal, but its become much more of a hassle to get in CA since Whole Foods is no longer carrying it. Much cheaper anyway, 1 gal 365 brand is $3 and raw is $6 for 1/2 gal.

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                        • #13
                          Well, I guess the mixed message is because dairy bothers some people, and doesn't bother others. I make kefir from raw milk, and drink a glass of uncultured milk (cut with cream) a couple times a week. Doesn't bother me a bit. I think there's a world of difference between pasteurized and raw.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DFH View Post
                            I was mainly asking about drinking milk, not really the other products.
                            Oh, in that case I would recommend staying far away. Generally, dairy is healthiest if it's been cultured to break down the lactose (yogurt, kefir, cheese), if it's made from just the cream which is naturally low in lactose and casein (heavy cream, butter, ghee), or best of all, if it's both cultured AND fatty (mmmm...creme fraiche). So, just drinking straight milk is probably the least healthy thing to do with it, unless you have high dairy tolerance and aren't insulin resistant.
                            The Primal Holla! Eating fat. Getting lean. Being awesome.

                            You were sick, but now you're well, and there's work to do. - Kilgore Trout

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                            • #15
                              I drink a glass of milk every evening; it's my version of dessert. I do admit I eat for too many dairy products, but I love them! I want to go a week without them to see if it makes a difference to my health. But I'm not sure what I'd eat instead, and also I use a lot of dairy for its vitamin K content as I'm trying to heal my teeth with my diet.

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