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  • Sourdough

    Erased.
    Last edited by Donna; 06-14-2011, 10:52 AM.

  • #2
    You may want to consider rye bread. According to wikipedia, rye has less gluten than wheat and traditionally has been leavened with sourdough starter.

    FYI... Mechanisms of Sugar Addiction: Or, Why You’re Addicted To Bread (Updated) - GNOLLS.ORG

    You're probably taking the sensible approach by making incremental improvements instead of wholesale changes. Bread is definitely something you want to moderate.

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    • #3
      I have made bread with coconut flour, almond flour, and rice flour. The rice flour breads are not low carb but are gluten free... most bakeries carry gluten free bread and they are also sold at my local Whole Foods and Trader Joe's. It may be worth trying a gluten free bread as you ease into the primal eating plan.

      I agree that Rye has a lower glycemic load than sourdough, and some buckwheat breads are also low on the scale.
      simplyprimal.blogspot.com

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      • #4
        Welcome, Donna!

        Gluten is what you want to avoid (it is essentially toxic to our digestive systems), and eating sourdough bread (no matter how long it is fermented) does nothing to eliminate gluten. Fermenting reduces (but does not eliminate) phytates, which reduce mineral absorption.

        Your best bet, from a health perspective, is to find a gluten-free alternative. There are many gluten free breads available in most grocery stores and all health stores & Whole Foods carry them.

        If you must, slowly cut down on your bread consumption. I was waaaaay to addicted to do this & needed to go cold turkey. It was worth it! I felt so much better-- after 2.5 weeks, my digestion finally normalized.
        Last edited by Dragonfly; 04-01-2011, 06:53 PM.
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        • #5
          Originally posted by Donna
          Okay. Thanks for the advice. I will try gluten-free bread. I usually only have one or two slices of bread per day. I should be fine with gluten-free bread. I’ve never been one to binge on bread or even really crave bread until I told myself I couldn’t have any. (I have had a slice of buttered toast with eggs for breakfast almost every day for years and I really missed that.)

          From the info I saw on the site, I thought that sourdough was better than gluten-free bread because of the fermentation and because most gluten-free bread is so highly processed or refined. I guess I misunderstood. Thanks for the correction.

          Almond flour and coconut flour are probably better than grain flours like rice. I looked for bread made from almond flour in the store, but couldn’t find it. But now that I think about it, I don’t think I checked in the cold section. They might keep almond flour bread refrigerated. I bought some almond meal today and it was in the cold section. I shop at Whole Foods. Is there a particular brand of gluten-free bread you recommend?
          I don't think they sell almond flour bread.

          The gluten free breads are still full of grains, and therefore not good for you. Why don't you try making something yourself if you "need" bread. I think you should try to go bread free for a month. Try one month bread free and you will find that bread was just a tasteless crutch holding you back from all of the delicious foods you could have been eating.
          The more I see the less I know for sure.
          -John Lennon

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          • #6
            yes, sourdough that is traditionally fermented does in fact break down some of the gluten. The fermentation process involves both yeast and lactobacteria. The yeast release gas that will help the bread rise, it's the bacteria that will produce acid and enzymes that break down some of the gluten.

            I think the above bread sounds quite nice and it's fresh and local. Now, not all of the gluten is broken down and bread isn't primal as you know, but your choice would be a pretty decent compromise bread to try. In my personal opinion gluten free bread just isn't worth eating due to the unsatisfying texture. Gluten is what makes a bread springy and well, "bready".

            Besides sourdough, if I were to choose a bread product, I sometimes buy a traditional german rye bread. I get it at my health food co-op. It's a very dense, brown, non-leavened bread that has a nutty flavor and is extremely filling, so it's not something I would feel I have to binge on.

            Another decent choice is sprouted bread, which contains fewer anti-nutrients due to the sprouting process. Tastewise though, the sourdough or the German rye are my favorites.

            Nothing wrong with easing into things. Do whatever you have to to keep from feeling overwhelmed or slipping into destructive habits
            Last edited by Pitter; 04-01-2011, 09:05 PM. Reason: add more info

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            • #7
              Rice bread is actually fine.

              IMO, any amount of gluten is a problem.
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              • #8
                You can do a traditionally leavened bread with much longer (and cooler) fermentaiton - like 24-36 hrs. Google "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" - pretty good book and the basic recipe makes great traditional bread. Mark did a post on sourdough recently. If I recall, the message was something like, "if you are going to eat bread, traditionally leavened sourdough might be the best of a bad thing". I have moved beyond it all, but there is something magic about a pain levaine that is hard to beat.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
                  You can do a traditionally leavened bread with much longer (and cooler) fermentaiton - like 24-36 hrs. Google "artisan bread in 5 minutes a day" - pretty good book and the basic recipe makes great traditional bread. Mark did a post on sourdough recently. If I recall, the message was something like, "if you are going to eat bread, traditionally leavened sourdough might be the best of a bad thing". I have moved beyond it all, but there is something magic about a pain levaine that is hard to beat.
                  This is so true. Before I was diagnosed celiac, I loved making artisan bread, and catching wild yeast... sigh. I still dream about that bread sometimes.

                  Marks post does indeed basically say that of all of the awful grainfilled gluten filled things, sourdough is less harmful, but still not something that you should encorporate into your everyday life.



                  My parents have been trying to encorporate sourdough into their lukewarm attempt at eating primal, and it's not going well. They have massive carb cravings and are struggling to lose any weight.
                  The more I see the less I know for sure.
                  -John Lennon

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                  • #10
                    rye bread -- so long as there isn't any wheat in it -- is gluten free, and when DH went gluten free (before we went paleo/primal), we would get "normandy rye" from the french bakery which was a sourdough rye bread and gluten free. it's a good option. it toasts nicely, is good with butter (but hard to eat without butter), and makes a decent, flavorful sandwich.

                    you can easily move from daily bread to weekly bread, then biweekly, then monthly. you'll get there -- if it's where you want to be.

                    you shoul

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                    • #11
                      I had to give up bread cold turkey since I was totally addicted to it. My digestion was so much better after removing it completely.

                      My friends who eased into paleo used Julian Bakery to get their bread fix in with less guilt. They have a gluten free bread that is sprouted and very low carb as well. It tastes like a sourdough/onion English muffin. I tried it once and made a paleo cheeseburger with it and it wasn't half bad. Here is the link.
                      Purity Bread

                      But personally I like the stuff in between sandwiches and burgers more so I just go with the good stuff and toss the bread.
                      "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

                      People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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                      • #12
                        Unless you have celiac disease, I think true sourdough is the best wheat product to eat. Before I gave up most grains, I was following WAPF and for awhile was only eating long fermented sourdough bread. After awhile I decided it would be okay to have some white flour crackers and tortillas since the phytic acid would be low, but I got intensely constipated for a few days after eating them. So I think there is something in the gluten being less of a problem in traditionally fermented bread. I'm not willing to test it at this point by trying some sourdough again since I'm feeling so good and my discomfort from the other gluten things I ate was so extreme, but I don't know, maybe someday in the future I will. Sourdough is the only wheat product I would still have once in awhile if I could. Nothing beats it for me.

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                        • #13
                          This is the best sourdough bread I have ever had.

                          Truckee Sourdough Company

                          Established in 1996, Truckee Sourdough Company is an artisan bakery located in the small Sierra mountain town of Truckee, California near the California/Nevada border.

                          The bakery supplies crusty sourdough and other breads to markets and restaurants in the Reno, Carson, Lake Tahoe, Sacramento and California Central Valley regions.

                          Truckee Sourdough is a natural Artisan Bread. It is made using only freshly milled unbleached flour, sea salt and water.

                          The sourdough breads are leavened using a sour culture derived from the naturally occurring wild yeasts present in the Truckee area. The Ciabatta bread is leavened using commercial yeast in the Italian tradition. No oils, fats, preservatives, dough conditioners or artificial souring acids are used.

                          The long, slow process used to prepare Truckee Sourdoughs creates the rich flavors and textures of traditionally leavened bread.

                          Unlike high volume modern-day bakeries where machines process the breads in their entirety to produce perfect duplicates of one another, Truckee Sourdough breads are hand finished giving each loaf it's own delightfully uneven shape, irregular internal crumb and color. The loaves are slowly baked to create rich, thick crusted country breads reminiscent of times long ago.

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                          • #14
                            IMO, any amount of gluten is a problem.
                            I agree!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Donna
                              Well, it looks like there is a difference in opinion about what bread is the healthiest option. I seriously doubt I have celiac, but I guess there is always that possibility.

                              So, anyway, I guess I will use this loaf of fresh, local sourdough beings I just bought it yesterday. And then I will either try a normandy rye/sourdough or gluten-free bread (Purity). The truckee bread looks good too but I doubt I can buy it in Oregon stores. Homemade artisan bread probably tastes the best, but I’m not much of a baker.

                              For years now, I have had the mindset that a little in moderation is usually fine. For example, I have a real sweet tooth so I don’t keep sweets around the house but I will buy a sweet treat a couple of times per week. I know the moderation view is probably not primal’s viewpoint and people who have an allergy or intolerance to certain foods need to totally abstain.

                              I’m not sure if primal is for me. I have been eating organic and relatively healthy for years. I know I feel better when I eat more meat and fresh veggies and fewer grains, but I don’t know how extreme I need to be with this. I plan to taper off the bread slowly. I hope to eventually go without gluten for one month to see if I notice a difference. I’m sure the week I went without bread or gluten was not long enough to determine. I didn’t notice much of a difference that week.

                              Thanks for all the suggestions. There is a recipe posted on Elana’s Pantry for gluten-free bread made with almond flour that looks good and easy to make (gluten-free bread 2.0). It also uses arrowroot powder. I don’t know if arrowroot powder fits in with the primal plan. It has carbs, but at least it is gluten-free and non-grain.
                              Elana's bread would definitely be a good transition bread. Arrowroot powder is fine, as is almond flour.
                              The more I see the less I know for sure.
                              -John Lennon

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