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  • I dont think its about insulin, but...

    I dont't thing its all about insulin, and i dont think PB should be viewed as a lowcarb diet.

    Protien spikes insulin anyway, so unless your eating sticks of butter ur gonna be pumpin out insulin every meal anyway. But the reason why LC works for so many of us is because it removes those blood sugar highs and lows. Fat is also very satisfying.

    So you eat less, which leads to a calorie defecit. And PBers do it the best because, well me for example i need 120gs of protien a day. So i figure tht out first (20oz ground turkey -800 cals.) tht leaves me with 1000 cals left, and even if i wanted to blow all those on carbs, i can have like 6-7 sweet potatoes, or like 12 bags of green beans or god knows how much brocolli

    And 12 bags of sweet potatoes is i think aound 96carbs anyway...

    So guyz, we got this shit. There isnt a healthier way to eat. Weather us eating 400 carbs or 40 carbs, ur eating healthy and if ur satisfied and in a calorie defi it ( dont habe to be extreme, 300-500cals a day) and us gonna lose weight.

    And i typed all this out on an iphone so sorry about typos, but mirite or mirite? I say increSe ur carbs as much as you want ( but then, u know, decrease the fat a little too. Its all got to even out.)

  • #2
    Damn alot of errors, sorry guys i cant edit my posts on this stupid thing

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    • #3
      Or you could blow it on that stick of butter. mmmmmm....

      And 12 bags of sweet potatoes? 12 oz maybe. I think your phone autocorrected something into "bags."
      Type 1 Diabetic. Controlling blood sugar through primal life.

      2012 Goals:
      Maintain A1c of 6.0 or lower
      More dietary fat, less carbs, moderate protein
      LHT and sprint as per PB fitness
      Play more!

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      • #4
        I'm having a little trouble reading all that. What's your point?

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        • #5
          pootietang? that you?

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          • #6
            Originally posted by softthings View Post
            pootietang? That you?
            lol
            Type 1 Diabetic. Controlling blood sugar through primal life.

            2012 Goals:
            Maintain A1c of 6.0 or lower
            More dietary fat, less carbs, moderate protein
            LHT and sprint as per PB fitness
            Play more!

            Comment


            • #7
              Take a 500 pound dude who keeps eating and eating and can't stop. Surely a lot of it is carbs but he will also be taking in a lot of satiating fat too, but he is still hungry. Why? Leptin of course. His brain can't see leptin and other satiety hormones. What I think low carb does is it reduces serum triglycerides in the insulin resistant and then less triglycerides damage the leptin receptors, so people burn more and eat less.
              Stabbing conventional wisdom in its face.

              Anyone who wants to talk nutrition should PM me!

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              • #8
                Yeah, I think you've got it wrong. Insulin isn't a problem. Insulin resistance, and chronically increased insulin is. That comes about from a constant high carb diet.

                Paleo works for several reason, carb 'restriction' to normal, anthropologically historic levels is just one of them.

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                • #9
                  I think you are wrong about a very important point with Insulin: every body reacts differently to carbohydrates. There is no "one way works for everyone." Similarily, one person may be ketogenic on 100 grams of carbs a day and someone else may need to cut it to 20 grams a day to achieve the same effect (i.e. ketosis). And, yes, protein may spike insulin but a normal person is not going to store protein as fat, assuming they are not overeating such that there is a surplus of calories. If you are eating VLC it is extremely hard to overeat that much...especially when your body isnt getting the hunger symptoms every 2-3 hours that it used to get when eating a CW diet. That is a huge advantage for a ketogenic diet.

                  So, following a ketogenic diet is beneficial as a guideline for most of the people on these message boards.Eating ketogenic provides the best chance for everyone's body to regulate their normal hormonal pathways while simultaneously fulfilling all of our nutritional requirements AND as well as allowing weight loss. Is there another lifestyle that can do this effectively? No, there isnt. Not a one. VLC is a very good way to go for most people on here.
                  If you can just get your....mind together....then come on across to me.....
                  James Marshall (Jimi)Hendrix

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                    Take a 500 pound dude who keeps eating and eating and can't stop. Surely a lot of it is carbs but he will also be taking in a lot of satiating fat too, but he is still hungry. Why? Leptin of course. His brain can't see leptin and other satiety hormones. What I think low carb does is it reduces serum triglycerides in the insulin resistant and then less triglycerides damage the leptin receptors, so people burn more and eat less.
                    Definately agree!

                    It would be just lovely to eat to fullness, but what if you never feel full or satiated? That is the current situation I am in. I was eating more fats and have just increased my proteins to help feel fuller, but I understand that this will take time and that Rome wasn't built in a day. At this point in time whilst I am still damaged on the inside from eating CW, I could eat over 3000 calories a day on PB and still be hungry because of leptin sensitivity. There is no doubt in my mind that when this issue finally sorts itself out, I will be on the path to better health
                    Last edited by TARNIP; 03-16-2011, 07:36 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by nachobrawler View Post
                      I think you are wrong about a very important point with Insulin: every body reacts differently to carbohydrates. There is no "one way works for everyone." Similarily, one person may be ketogenic on 100 grams of carbs a day and someone else may need to cut it to 20 grams a day to achieve the same effect (i.e. ketosis). And, yes, protein may spike insulin but a normal person is not going to store protein as fat, assuming they are not overeating such that there is a surplus of calories. If you are eating VLC it is extremely hard to overeat that much...especially when your body isnt getting the hunger symptoms every 2-3 hours that it used to get when eating a CW diet. That is a huge advantage for a ketogenic diet.

                      So, following a ketogenic diet is beneficial as a guideline for most of the people on these message boards.Eating ketogenic provides the best chance for everyone's body to regulate their normal hormonal pathways while simultaneously fulfilling all of our nutritional requirements AND as well as allowing weight loss. Is there another lifestyle that can do this effectively? No, there isnt. Not a one. VLC is a very good way to go for most people on here.
                      I agree.

                      Don't agree with people who say insulin is not a problem, and they don't even know (or mention) what their blood insulin is.

                      Before I started on low carb, my weight was out of control totally, even when I would not eat much. I was never a big eater. Losing weight was next to impossible.

                      My insulin was over 18. The doc that helped me figure it out knew right away that this had to come down. Now it is below 7 and losing weight is easy.

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                      • #12
                        I also think that insulin isn't' to be blamed for fat storage. Overeating carbohydrates to the point of causing decreased insulin sensitivity is the real problem. Insulin has multiple functionalities and protein causes insulin spikes too because it's needed to get nutrients to where they need to go in the human body. Avoiding eating a lot of carbohydrates all day long and causing insulin spices all day long is a great idea. Avoiding protein to prevent insulin from spiking at all is a really really bad idea.

                        Insulin Levels and Fat Loss | BodyRecomposition - The Home of Lyle McDonald
                        http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Stabby View Post
                          Take a 500 pound dude who keeps eating and eating and can't stop. Surely a lot of it is carbs but he will also be taking in a lot of satiating fat too, but he is still hungry. Why? Leptin of course. His brain can't see leptin and other satiety hormones. What I think low carb does is it reduces serum triglycerides in the insulin resistant and then less triglycerides damage the leptin receptors, so people burn more and eat less.
                          Got any references or reasoning details you can add to that last bit?

                          I'm also in the camp that carbs don't CAUSE the metabolic problems in the first place (even decent amounts of fructose or upwards of 15-20g/day should be fine for individuals with perfect leptin and insulin sensitivity). There is too much evidence that debunks the 'carbohydrate hypothesis.' However, I'm still thinking there is some additional benefit to low carb diets besides removing the neolithic agents of disease (yeah, the paleo diet trials reduced ad-libitum calorie intake significantly, but I'm guessing there are other physiological (and psychological) mechanisms (or five) behind the appetite reducing effects of low-carb diets).

                          I've thought it likely mostly a gut-brain deal or a chemical addiction deal where the brain is used to receiving a shit-ton of serotonin from wheat and sugar and when it's cut off, even if you are allowed only safe starches, you crave them to make more serotonin. I know I still feel like I can eat carbs forever. It's not near as bad as if I allowed myself to eat wheat and sugar, though. If I did, I'm sure I'd obese by the end of the year...

                          But yeah, t'would be interesting if triglycerides were involved in appetite signalling also. I wouldn't be surprised.
                          Last edited by ZoŽ; 03-17-2011, 11:59 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Zoe:
                            There is too much evidence that debunks the 'carbohydrate hypothesis.'
                            Are you referring to books like GCBC, and WWGF? Im working through these now and trying to figure out what I want to agree with.

                            Im interested in insulin resistance and triglycerides quite a bit.

                            I was exercising hard on low fat "carbo loading" and could not lose one lb. Triglycerides were as high as 1,600!

                            Low carb, and some others things brought weight down 120 lb, and triglycerides are now 64. Down by a factor of 25.

                            I'm still trying to understand it better, and would like to know more about what causes what. WWGF makes sense to me. If there is a good criticism of it, I would like to understand that too.

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                            • #15
                              I hesitate to jump in here because my husband is the interpreter of all this stuff for me. But my understanding is that carbs are broken down and somehow get all turned into triglycerides, whereas protein doesn't. I read recently that they aren't exactly sure why protein spikes insulin but doesn't have the same effect as carbs.
                              My other understanding is that there is some appreciable difference in the body between Paleo carbs and Neo carbs, which is why many here say to eat "healthy" carbs like sweet potato.
                              So I agree that it's not all understood. But I'm not sure we can wholesale discount insulin's role. Taubes is responsible by saying 1) He's a journalist and 2) that the insulin component is a theory. I think it behooves all of us to be cautious when thinking any of this is hard and fast.
                              The Paleo Periodical
                              It's not a Diet. It's a lifestyle.

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