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    We routinely get topics where posters (new and old) have a small freak out episode where they gain anywhere from 2 to 6lbs (for argument's sake) they then go on to list what they ate the day or week before, what they did as far as activities or workouts, and it usually ends with posters telling them to either: relax, or to eliminate x,y,z, etc.

    While sometimes these topics are constructive, because you'll find that the OP may have some type of serious ailment, or is secretly eating something decidedly bad for them, etc. I was just thinking about something that I'd like to get some feedback on:

    You cannot gain too much weight following a primal diet.

    What I mean is, if you simply eat primal, lift heavy things, sprint once in a GREAT while (shit, I haven't done a single sprint session since November, and I'm sitting pretty at the same weight as back then) and generally aren't a couch potato, you cannot gain too much weight following a primal diet. Even if your PRIMAL carbs are somewhat high, or you like to overdose on butter, drown your coffee in cream, etc. You may plateau, you may not lose as rapidly as you'd like, but my argument is: you will never be fat/obese on a primal diet -- unless your starting point is that of a large person. I argue that even IF you started out obese, you will lose enough then perhaps stay, but you will NEVER get back to obese if you just KIP (keep it primal!)

    I thought of this because, when you see threads such as the one I mention above "help! gained 3lbs in two days!" I automatically think "does the OP think that unless he/she does something RIGHT NOW he/she will continue to gain 3lbs indefinitely and eventually become a beached whale??" and though I understand that this is just MY assumption, the urgency in their words seems to indicate that this is a true concern, that unless you drop carbs/drop dairy/eat less/workout harder/add this/subtract that/etc he/she is going to keep gaining and gaining and gaining following a primal diet. My argument is that this would be hard to do.

    I'm sure the counter argument to this is, if you routinely eat a lot of everything and do lot of nothing you will gain weight, but that's not what the primal blueprint is about. I'm saying, KIP and things will fall into place.

    A lot of you guys know me, but for those who don't, a quick story:

    Started primal Jan 2010 at ~175lbs, 24 y.o. Hispanic male, 5'7. In about 6 months I had lost around 20lbs. In Nov of last year did a whole30 and got to 144lbs. Did a 180 and went back to my careless ways (weed smoking, chip and ice cream eating mess) but I kept it primal throughout (when I wasn't high, of course) and I'm sitting at 148-150 right now. I understand that I can't be compared to females of any age, and even to males of varying ages, but what I'm trying to convey is that even if you go off the rails sometimes, if you just find yourself KIP* most of the time, I just don't see a way for anybody to gain too much weight.

    Am I lean right now? I don't have the bottom portion of a six pack, but I kind of look similar to what I did post whole30, a little bit more flab to be sure, but not what you'd expect from reading that for at least 2 months straight (post whole30) I was literally eating tons of junk food, smoking a lot of weed, not sprinting worth a damn, and only really exercising when I was high (don't ask why, but I'm a super active stoner) so despite all my bad habits, I did KIP as often as I could and/or wanted to.

    I'm not saying I'm a person to be followed or a model Grok or anything like that, I'm not asking anybody to purposely go on binges or anything of the sort. Just so nobody gets confused.

    For the record, I'm currently drug free and trying to KIP all the time, not just sometimes, but I'll admit that not all my meals are always primal, but it's the way I like to live my life, slightly more carefree. I have other stressors and I don't want food or constantly thinking about good/bad choices to be another one.

    So, what do you all reckon? am I full of it? Am I just lucky, gifted or genetically superior? Trust me, I'm none of those.

    (* I'm not trying to start a "thing" with the KIP keep-it-primal short hand, I'm just effin lazy )

    PS: I have nothing against "freak out" threads, I wanted to start this discussion to see if my little theory holds any water, in the hopes that folks can relax a little bit. This is not a personal attack on anybody or any group. I'm so PC.

    Edit: I forgot, I'm talking strictly body composition on this issue. I'm sure people that are way more true primal than I am are HEALTHIER than I am. I do not claim to be healthy, I'd like to think I'm better off than people that eat a SAD diet, but what I'm speaking about mostly here is body comp, fat gain/loss etc. Body comp is an important marker in health but it's not the end all be all. I definitely believe those that don't indulge like I do are healthier. Fact.
    Last edited by iniQuity; 02-27-2011, 08:53 AM.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

  • #2
    I agree with what you are saying about all the "freak out" and "newbie" questions. I think a reasonable solution would be to have a sticky at the top of the page giving beginner advice and also have answers or links to the heavily repeated questions on this Primal Nutrition forum.

    Oh and congrats on your personal success.
    "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

    People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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    • #3
      I don't know, my gut feeling is that you could still get pretty fat if you absolutely stuffed yourself on high calorie items (double cream for example) day in, day out.
      The Primal Journey of Mr and Mrs Fist
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      • #4
        For what its worth, I think that PB is a perfect way to maintain your weight and improve your health and maybe your body composition. I think it can work for some people (especially those with a LOT of weight to lose) as a "weight loss program" with comparatively little effort and great benefits (compared to CW for example). I think (from reading peoples posts) that the truly dedicated can adapt PB along their own researched lines to give astounding results - though the discipline involved is probably outside my scope without PB becoming an obsession (I am given to perfectionism and obsessing if not careful). I think eating the PB way "fixes" some health issues simply because it removes so many harmful frankenfoods and naturally occurring poisons from the diet.

        SO - I think what I think ..... is that I agree with you on many points. For someone like you, a relaxed way is enough. For others it isn't - or they aren't going to "settle" for the relaxed results.

        I also wouldn't swear that someone couldn't put on weight on PB - maybe they "needed to" or maybe they missed out the little bit that's about eating to satiety not "stuffedness" (or because "its so damn delish I just want MORE of it")

        I don't know where I fit myself. Husband is maintaining effortlessly but obvoulsy eating "too much" to lose the weight he wants to lose. I am - not weighing but aware of changes for the better in many areas of my life and I'm pretty sure that - once I am where I want to be - the fully Primal (occasional 20%) way will be enough to keep me there.

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        • #5
          I wish I could agree with you, Iniquity! You haven't read Why We Get Fat, yet--have you?

          What I mean is, if you simply eat primal, lift heavy things, sprint once in a GREAT while (shit, I haven't done a single sprint session since November, and I'm sitting pretty at the same weight as back then) and generally aren't a couch potato, you cannot gain too much weight following a primal diet
          Taubes shows how exercise builds an appetite--it doesn't help folks lose weight (new paradigm for me!)

          You cannot gain too much weight following a primal diet.
          Too much for whom? That's a moving target. 5 lbs of actual body fat would be too much for me.

          Even if your PRIMAL carbs are somewhat high, or you like to overdose on butter, drown your coffee in cream, etc.
          Carbs being too high for that particular person can be an issue. Followed by habit/emotional eating.

          So, what do you all reckon? am I full of it?
          I think you are well-meaning, but using your n=1 experience is not very helpful. Your metabolism is completely different from that of a 30-50 yr old woman--or a 30-50 year old man.

          It's really about the hormones in almost all cases. Insulin, estrogen, thyroid.

          I do wish folks would get rid of their scales. And read Batty's fantastic thread. Maybe we wouldn't have so many of those threads, then!
          Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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          Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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          • #6
            Please, let's not let this thread evolve into an "us vs them" or a bashing of people that are more mathematical in their approach to the PB.

            I want this to be more about whether or not you can gain a considerable amount of unwanted weight while following the PB. I'm arguing that you cannot. I'm saying your body will reach homoestasis. Your body will NOT put on tons of flab. Dig?
            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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            • #7
              i agree almost 100% (...i also think that you can gain weight eating way too many calories, but you actually have to be trying to gain weight). the freak out posts do seem to be reactionary. unless someone is gaining weight consistently over a period of a few weeks, i don't see a big need to worry.

              regarding your idea of eating primal and not gaining weight, i've spent the past 5 weeks doing very little exercise (2 of which were absolutely no exercise) due to a knee injury, and was eating more than usual, and i doubt i've gained more than a pound or two. i've seen slight smoothing around my abs, but nothing to sound any alarms over. i think you're dead-on with eating primal to stay where you are or even lose more.

              by the way, i love the whole KIP thing
              http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread60178.html

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              • #8
                Please, let's not let this thread evolve into an "us vs them" or a bashing of people that are more mathematical in their approach to the PB.
                Not my intention in any way--simply pointing out that the scale is not a very useful tool to measure progress.
                Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
                Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
                Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                  Not my intention in any way--simply pointing out that the scale is not a very useful tool to measure progress.
                  amen sister

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                    I want this to be more about whether or not you can gain a considerable amount of unwanted weight while following the PB. I'm arguing that you cannot. I'm saying your body will reach homoestasis. Your body will NOT put on tons of flab. Dig?
                    Gaining weight in the form of muscle is easy to do while following the PB, which is why Dragonfly's posts (and her link to Batty's thread) are so important. But I recognize that, in the quote above, you specify unwanted weight. In this respect I think I generally agree. One of the wonderful benefits of primal foods are their satiating power. This generally helps prevent overeating.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                      Please, let's not let this thread evolve into an "us vs them" or a bashing of people that are more mathematical in their approach to the PB.

                      I want this to be more about whether or not you can gain a considerable amount of unwanted weight while following the PB. I'm arguing that you cannot. I'm saying your body will reach homoestasis. Your body will NOT put on tons of flab. Dig?
                      I want to suggest that for those of us who have a need to lose weight (for me, that need is I have been told I will be put on even more medication if I don't lose weight) sometimes it is a bit more complicated than just waiting to see if we do or don't "put on tons of flab".

                      When I read on MDA (from Mark, who, I assume, should know what he is talking about) that you can eat primal and lose weight, but that some people need to watch their calories, some people need to cut out dairy, some people need to cut out nuts, some people need to cut out chocolate, some people need to cut out fruit, some people can do 80/20 but others need to be 100%...well, that suggests to me it isn't as easy as being totally laid back about it. Which I believe is why some people are a little more worried about gaining five pounds in a week when they started their journey in order to lose weight.

                      I agree with the good-natured folks who have suggested that, for peace of mind, I throw out my scale. And I think I might at least shove it in a closet for a while. But eventually I am going to have to get back on the scales at the good doctor's, and that medication discussion is going to come up again. I would rather go into it knowing where I stand, so the scales and I are going to have a showdown at some point.

                      People who have disordered eating can gain weight on anything. I haven't been eating this way long enough to know, but I imagine it is totally possible to gain weight even if you eat primally, particularly if you don't exercise. Especially if you are a woman over the age of 40. Just a guess, and I know I don't want to be the guinea pig.

                      BTW, love Batty's attitude and want to be her when I grow up!
                      Everything I eat has been proved by some doctor or other to be a deadly poison, and everything I don't eat has been proved to be indispensable for life. But I go marching on. ~George Bernard Shaw

                      Starting Weight (1/3/2011): 189
                      Current Weight: 173

                      Goal: To be in the best shape ever by age 50! (5/11/2012)

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Primal Fist View Post
                        I don't know, my gut feeling is that you could still get pretty fat if you absolutely stuffed yourself on high calorie items (double cream for example) day in, day out.
                        Well sure, but that is decidedly not KIP or PB.

                        First rule of PB should be to throw away the fucking scale.

                        (for me, that need is I have been told I will be put on even more medication if I don't lose weight)
                        There is no prescription medication for being overweight.

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                        • #13
                          my dog is PB/paleo. ie: eats a species appropriate diet.
                          She's starting to get chunky. Even with regular exercise.
                          I believe it's possible.
                          my 2 cents.
                          Even if you fall flat on your face, at least you're moving forward!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ciep View Post
                            Gaining weight in the form of muscle is easy to do while following the PB, which is why Dragonfly's posts (and her link to Batty's thread) are so important. But I recognize that, in the quote above, you specify unwanted weight. In this respect I think I generally agree. One of the wonderful benefits of primal foods are their satiating power. This generally helps prevent overeating.
                            Right.

                            I'm probably way off, but what I was referring to was not something like gaining 5lbs of fat, I'm saying I don't think there's anyway that somebody could BECOME obese following a primal diet. I just get this sense when I read some of these alarming posts that people do believe that's a possibility, perhaps due to years of battling weight issues and what not and just having that ingrained notion that any sort of weight gain, unless immediately addressed, is going to snowball and become a huge issue. This is what I'm saying is extremely unlikely (impossible, IMO) following a primal diet, and doing some moderate exercise.

                            The point of the topic isn't necessarily to tell people "relax and it will happen" but just to reassure them that they WILL NOT gain tons of unwanted body fat.

                            Admittedly I have not yet read GCBC or Why We Get Fat (or even the PB, yes I suck, however I do intend to, soon, I just take forever to do things such as buy books) but I have read a lot of other free material on the web from numerous sources and they all lead me to this belief.

                            You know, because a primal diet is going to lead to better hormonal signaling, won't make you water retentive, won't make your body believe it's actually starving despite the fact that you're eating "food" (frankenfoods, in SAD diets) will address insulin resistance, will take care of leptin, ghrelin and any other hormone we might associate with weight gain/loss, etc.

                            I guess my point wasn't all that clear, sorry about that.
                            I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by iniQuity View Post
                              I just get this sense when I read some of these alarming posts that people do believe that's a possibility, perhaps due to years of battling weight issues and what not and just having that ingrained notion that any sort of weight gain, unless immediately addressed, is going to snowball and become a huge issue. This is what I'm saying is extremely unlikely (impossible, IMO) following a primal diet, and doing some moderate exercise.
                              Ok I think you have a point here that wasn't as clear in the first post.

                              I do think those of us who have struggled with large weight problems continue to have a genuine terror of it "happening again" even after years of a "normal range" weight. The sudden gain of a few pounds can set off panic. If you have "been there before", and you have "tried a lot of diets", its going to take a long time and a lot of stability/improvement/health or whatever to reassure you and convince you that this time you are going to be ok and not "go there again".

                              For myself, i cannot afford to get complacent and relax too much becaaue I KNOW I am capable of being the heaviest woman in the world. (To illustrate, I fell and broke my ribs last year while out running. I gained 15lbs in the first 14 days, admittedly eating CW. I am a
                              fat storing machine!!

                              However I now also believe I won't get there if I eat primal/paleo.

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