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  • Big Fat Leangains

    So, I'm a wee bit familiar with Martin's methods and protocols and I've had decent success with IF (I have always prefered the 16/8 breakdown), but I'm a little leery on including carby refeeds right now because I still have a substantial amount of weight to lose and I am a diabetic still showing fasting numbers over 100 and likely still sporting a fair amount of insulin resistance (though there is also a good bit of evidence that that is clearing up nicely).

    I'm pretty well convinced that diet is a good deal more important than exercise when it comes to fat loss, but I also want to build strength (not necessarily bulk) and am intending to increase both the effectiveness and frequency of my workouts (focusing more on strength training than conditioning).

    I already do squats, lunges, push ups, and Australian pull ups and I plan to incorporate dead lifts again as well (primal style log deadlifts - thanks for the tips, fitness-forum groks!). To start I'm planning on 2 days a week, with a third day for conditioning workouts with my K-bells just because they're fun.

    Anyone have an opinion on the refeeds - particularly how they might affect a recovering diabetic?

  • #2
    Fellow diabetic eagerly looking forward to responses.
    --Trish (Bork)
    TROPICAL TRADITIONS REFERRAL # 7625207
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    • #3
      Ex morbidly obese diabetic here. Now at 10% body fat and no meds whatsoever for anything. Took >2 years to get here.

      When I first started, I did once a week "refeeds". Ate whatever I wanted on Sundays. Didn't get me anywhere. Sure I lost fat, but stalled in a few months.

      Cut out the refeeds and really bumped up the intensity of my workouts. Body fat really started to melt off. Fasting BG is around 70 now. And post prandial BG is never over 100 (I eat clean).

      I would say forget about the refeeds until you're near the level of leaness you want to be at. Then play around with it. You may find the refeeds totally unnecessary or detrimental. I exercise fasted, always. And I exercise hard. No issues after your body adapts to using fat more than glucose.

      My definition of a refeed now is simply eating more than usual (way over my caloric requirements) but still low carb. Never any sugar/fake sugar or processed carbs. At most ONE small sweet potato or some good cheese. Other than that, I eat way more ribeye or fatty fish than I usually do.

      This way, I feel completely satisfied without getting fat and all the bad stuff that comes with being fat.

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      • #4
        "I would say forget about the refeeds until you're near the level of leaness you want to be at. Then play around with it. You may find the refeeds totally unnecessary or detrimental. I exercise fasted, always. And I exercise hard. No issues after your body adapts to using fat more than glucose."
        I'm sorry chickenblade, but that is just plain wrong. If you are restricting calories, your body will use fat for fuel, not glucose.

        Here's what you need brahnamin:
        The Leangains Guide
        And definitely:
        Fitday Calculate your calorie intake by multiplying your dodyweight in lbs. by 14, to lose subtract 500 from that on rest days
        "I'm pretty well convinced that diet is a good deal more important than exercise when it comes to fat loss, but I also want to build strength (not necessarily bulk) and am intending to increase both the effectiveness and frequency of my workouts (focusing more on strength training than conditioning)." Just read:
        Workout approach

        As for this little gem "...I'm a little leery on including carby refeeds right now because I still have a substantial amount of weight to lose..." While your history with diabetes will require some experimentation or even elimination with post-workout carbs, I'll ask you now wrt weight loss and refeeds, are you blind or just plain stupid?

        You're welcome.
        Last edited by enriquegp; 02-16-2011, 05:34 PM.

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        • #5
          Hey brahnamin,

          I've been experimenting with Leangains for about a month now, and I had one of my first real "refeeds" today. You know much more about your diabetes than I do, and though I do have some small problems with insulin (dang PCOS) anyone is free to nullify my advice if it puts you at risk!

          Personally, I'm starting with refeeds once a week and seeing how it goes. As a carb-phobic person, this might be more for my mental well being than for physical reasons.

          I usually take in about 50 g carbs a day. Today I doubled that by adding a sweet potato at lunch. That's about it. And that's pretty much as far as I'm going to push it. I also kept fat relatively low today. I'm hoping this works well.

          The only thing that I can tell you for sure is something that's been mentioned and that you probably already know: don't go about this by doing a "refeed" day where you cheat and have whatever you want. This is what I used to do, and like chickenbackside it always backfired on me. Go with a small sweet potato, or a little winter squash, and eat it closest to your workout time (when are you working out, by the way?)

          And if you're not, read Leangains like it's your job. It can be hard to muddle through because I don't think the sitemap is that great or the progress is very logical, but it will all come together soon.

          I'm blogging daily about my Leangains experience, so if you want to learn from my mistakes or add some insight feel free

          "The Way We Do Anything Is the Way We Do Everything"
          ~ Kancho Cameron Shayne

          Blog - The Primal Pantry
          My Leangains/Primal Lifestyle Challenge to begin 2/7/11!
          Check out the Blog for Daily Progress

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          • #6
            My understanding is that refeeds are only for dropping the last few percentages of body fat, assuming you have been eating VLC for awhile.
            Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
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            • #7
              yeah im having trouble understand leangains too. Basiclly you eat low carbs high fat on rest days, high(er) carb low fat on workout days, right?

              Thats what I did this week. On workout days I (eating primal) ate more carbs and little fat (had 3 sweet potatoes, fruit and stuff. Very low fat.

              thats the main principle right? besides the 16/8 fasting which i get.

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              • #8
                his whole process is based more on calories in and out then it is on carbs. theres never high fat....its always HIGH protein(like upwards of 2g/lb) and more carbs when you workout less whenyou dont. fat isnt ever high, but always as low as possible on lifting days...with occassional refeeds on calories, but it really takes a LEAN body and the perfect timing to do it right. im lean and i wouldnt even think of a refeed
                Get on my Level
                http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by enriquegp View Post
                  are you blind or just plain stupid?
                  I'm going to go out on a limb and say I am neither.

                  What I am is new to the Leangains approach and as it happens I am familiar with all the links you included in your post. (In fact, it was Richard's latest posts on his Leangain experiences that sent me back over to Martin's site after a year).

                  What I want to know is how this approach might affect an extremely overweight diabetic. See, THIS is the biggest before-picture-guy in the Client Update post. And THIS is me. (I'm the one in the glasses).

                  I don't question whether Leangains gets results. It plainly does. I question if it's anything I should be messing with at this juncture or if it's something I should put off until I've slimmed down a bit. In particular I was wondering if anyone knew (or had experience with) how it might affect a diabetic with numbers in the range I listed.
                  Last edited by brahnamin; 02-16-2011, 09:45 PM. Reason: to remove snarkiness.

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                  • #10
                    I was somewhere between you and the biggest leangains client. BUT, being 5ft 8" short, you can guess I looked worse.

                    If you still have some ways to go, I'd say this is just background noise. Just concentrate on eating only real unprocessed food, cutting out all sugar, dairy, nuts and fruit (except a moderate amount of berries). Drink only water or unsweetened coffee/tea. Exercise hard but short. Sleep as well as you possibly can. Get as much sun as you can without burning. Don't stress the small things in life.

                    If you can already see a 4-pack on your abs and want to work towards a 6-pack, then implementing an IF lifestyle, playing with refeeds, tweaking your exercise program for specific goals...etc would then make more sense.
                    Last edited by chickenbackside; 02-16-2011, 10:30 PM.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                      his whole process is based more on calories in and out then it is on carbs. theres never high fat....its always HIGH protein(like upwards of 2g/lb) and more carbs when you workout less whenyou dont. fat isnt ever high, but always as low as possible on lifting days...with occassional refeeds on calories, but it really takes a LEAN body and the perfect timing to do it right. im lean and i wouldnt even think of a refeed
                      Mal do you ever have cravings? Do you always eat vlc as in under 50g or thereabouts? Are you eating about 1g protein per lb body weight? I know this is YOUR experience and not MINE, and I've got a fairly good idea of what my bod is telling me now (yay!) but i still deal with occasional cravings and they seem to come out of nowhere. I've slowly been cutting out all fruit (drink a bit of kombucha sometimes and some berries) and upping my fat and cut back on my protein. The thing is though I just seem to be wanting more and more fat. I'm rolling with this but holy cats is there an upward limit? Oh and I cut back on the protein because it was making me sick. No way I can eat 1g per lb body weight. Turned into a longer question then I intended. I hope you don't mind me asking for you insights and experience. I really love the way you come at this and it has helped me a lot on my own path to health (including fertility!)
                      In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. -- Albert Camus

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                        I'm pretty well convinced that diet is a good deal more important than exercise when it comes to fat loss,
                        That's a good observation. Another way to think about this is consider how much time one spends exercising versus not exercising.

                        Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                        but I also want to build strength (not necessarily bulk)
                        How your physical appearance responds to your strength training is completely dependent on your genetics.


                        Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                        and am intending to increase both the effectiveness and frequency of my workouts
                        You may find that effectiveness and frequency are inversely proportional.

                        Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                        (focusing more on strength training than conditioning).
                        Improvements in the former necessarily leads to improvements in the latter.


                        Originally posted by brahnamin View Post
                        Anyone have an opinion on the refeeds - particularly how they might affect a recovering diabetic?
                        Fat metabolism is healthy, diabetic or not. Anything that could get you away from fat metabolism may be a bad idea.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                          im lean and i wouldnt even think of a refeed
                          I'm thinking of refeeding on some raw milk artisan cheeses, goat milk butter, and full fat, xylitol sweetened ice cream!

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by js290 View Post
                            How your physical appearance responds to your strength training is completely dependent on your genetics.
                            Yeah, actually I'm more interested in the strength training for the strength, not really so much how it makes me look. I started out an ugly Polock, I expect to finish in much the same fashion.

                            Originally posted by js290 View Post
                            You may find that effectiveness and frequency are inversely proportional.
                            They tend to be, but my current frequency is a haphazard "once-to-twice-a-week / when-I-get-around-to-it" kind of thing, and I really need to get more serious than that. So, I guess when I say *more frequent* what I mean is two strength days a week and one conditioning day with a minimum of two days between strength days for muscle recovery.

                            Originally posted by js290 View Post
                            Improvements in the former necessarily leads to improvements in the latter.
                            True that. But I really enjoy my kettlebell workouts (and the idea of enjoying any workout is kinda a big thing for my normally sedentary arse) so I plan to keep up with it until/unless I see some evidence that they're somehow messing me up.

                            Thanks for the detailed reply. I really appreciated it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hermanda View Post
                              Mal do you ever have cravings? Do you always eat vlc as in under 50g or thereabouts? Are you eating about 1g protein per lb body weight? I know this is YOUR experience and not MINE, and I've got a fairly good idea of what my bod is telling me now (yay!) but i still deal with occasional cravings and they seem to come out of nowhere. I've slowly been cutting out all fruit (drink a bit of kombucha sometimes and some berries) and upping my fat and cut back on my protein. The thing is though I just seem to be wanting more and more fat. I'm rolling with this but holy cats is there an upward limit? Oh and I cut back on the protein because it was making me sick. No way I can eat 1g per lb body weight. Turned into a longer question then I intended. I hope you don't mind me asking for you insights and experience. I really love the way you come at this and it has helped me a lot on my own path to health (including fertility!)
                              no i dont get cravings for anything but liver occassionally, when i was anroexic i did... now i dont ever even get hungry

                              to add... i dont track squat. i eat real food, nothing man-made. no idea where my carbs fall, no idea how much protein i eat, dont eat fruit period, im NOT SAYING YOU NEED TO FOLLOW leangains im just saying a lot of people have the wrong idea of the program. it is a CONSTANTLY HIGH HIGH HIGH PROTEIN diet, you add *some* carbs on days you work out and shun fat, on days you rest you *can* eat things like eggs(with their own fat not cooked in butter) or a juicier cut of meat. it isnt high fat on rest and low fat on workout. its high protein, period and figure out where you fall in the between.
                              Last edited by MalPaz; 02-17-2011, 03:19 PM.
                              Get on my Level
                              http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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