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  • #31
    Giving up coffee was pretty tough for me. I went cold turkey on coffee the same week I went strict paleo. It was brutal. I think the caffeine withdrawals were much worse for me than the carb flu. It took me two weeks of headaches and a pissed off attitiude to really let go of coffee. Nowadays I will drink 1 cup of decaf coffee but I am not quite as addicted and use it as a crutch to wake up in the morning. I do sleep much better now without all the caffeine.
    "If man made it, don't eat it" - Jack Lallane

    People say I am on a "crazy" diet. What is so crazy about eating veggies, fruits, seafood and organ meats? Just because I don't eat whole wheat and processed food doesn't make my diet "crazy". Maybe everyone else with a SAD are the "crazy" ones for putting that junk in their system.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
      /rolleyes at "tea can have more caffeine that coffee" obviously I would be talking about non caffeinated teas? Rooibos/Green/White/Herbal etc. That's just a straw man argument right there. As for the antioxidant argument - the amount of coffee that needs to be consumed (as per Robb Wolf) to realize the antioxidant benefits of coffee is very very little. And lots of teas have the same benefit are alkalizing and do not contain caffeine.

      Compare the antioxidant dosage needed to realize the "health benefits" of coffee to the starbucks intravenous drip the population needs in order to function in their sleep deprived mornings - yeah not comparable. And then the caffeine effects the quality of your sleep (whether or not you realize or care) - making you less rested the next morning - and zing WANTING MORE COFFEE! A vicious cycle driving the US Gross National Product and supported on the "grounds" (ha ha) of a pseudo-health food along with the assertion "I don't need it"; yeah right. You need it.

      This is my favorite:



      cp




      I dare all of your coffee apologists to go without it for 60 days. Chemical dependence is not Primal. You were not born broken and in need of chemical boost in order to function properly. I could argue that whole grains are healthy for the amount of soluble and insoluble fiber they contain. Turning a blind eye to the trojan horse of caffeine inside every venti you guzzle down... I dare you to do more!
      in case no one has pointed this out already, green and white tea have a significant amount of caffeine as well. so does dark chocolate.
      btw, i gave up coffee cold-turkey at the start of january. i had been drinking 3-4 cups (sometimes more) of americano per day, and cut it cold-turkey. i had absolutely no change in energy levels, and no withdrawal headaches. i've had two cups of coffee since, just for the hell of it. do you know what that tells me? i drink it because i like it, not because i'm addicted.
      my primal journal:
      http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...Primal-Journal

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Saoirse View Post
        do you know what that tells me? i drink it because i like it, not because i'm addicted.
        +1

        I did a similar experiment with similar results: no withdrawal symptoms, no changes in energy levels, no changes in sleep. The only modification I made when I went back on was not having any after mid-afternoon (just in case). I make no health claims for the stuff (though it may have some), but I do make enjoyment claims. There is nothing like french press with heavy cream first thing in the morning.
        Started PB late 2008, lost 50 lbs by late 2009. Have been plateaued, but that thing may just be biting the dust: more on that later.

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        • #34
          Tea and Caffeine from Wikipedia

          Tea is another common source of caffeine. Although tea contains more caffeine than coffee (by dry weight), a typical serving contains much less, as tea is normally brewed much weaker. Besides strength of the brew, growing conditions, processing techniques- and other variables also affect caffeine content. Certain types of tea may contain somewhat more caffeine than other teas. Tea contains small amounts of theobromine and slightly higher levels of theophylline than coffee. Preparation and many other factors have a significant impact on tea, and color is a very poor indicator of caffeine content.[unreliable source?][25] Teas like the pale Japanese green tea gyokuro, for example, contain far more caffeine than much darker teas like lapsang souchong, which has very little. (from the caffeine article)
          that caffeine article is a good little article, i think.

          anyhoot, a lot of people can go off coffee for a significant amount of time. my husband prefers to have one large mug of coffee per day (organic, shade, fair, locally roasted, the-darker-the-roast-the-better, french pressed), but will often go weeks and/or months (and even went a full year when he thought it was causing him health problems-- it wasn't) without it. and then, he'll go back to daily, and then cut back to once a week because he didnt' have time to grind, brew, etc the way he wanted.

          so, he likes it, he has it when he wants, sometimes he doesn't when he wants because of time, and so on and so forth.

          i also drink A LOT of tea. but, i can do without it. On our holiday, i drank probably 1/10th of the tea i normally drink or less. for serious. it was no problem.

          i drink green, black (of all kinds and flavors), white, red, herbal. . . . seriously, it's a pleasure.

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          • #35
            I LOVE coffee, but it turns out caffeinated coffee caused migraines for me if I missed a cup and sometimes even if I didn't. I got rid of caffeine and have never had a migraine since.

            I do like de-caf but when I eliminate it for a week or so, I am pretty sure I notice an improvement in my sleep and energy. I am not completely sure, but I am trying to leave it out for now.

            I sure do miss it though!

            ETA: I do have autoimmune disease....not sure if this makes me more sensitive or not.
            Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

            http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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            • #36
              I envy those that didnt have withdrawals. I went from 2 cups a day only, sometimes 3 to nothing and had the worst headaches ever for a few days. Migraine headaches that i had to sit in a warm bath with a cloth on my neck in a dark quiet room and still get no relief.

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              • #37
                Drink your adrenals out homies. Disfreakingusting.
                http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41107101...consumer_news/

                for more fun- Google "cortisol and coffee" - elevated cortisol levels for up to 18 hours after consuming coffee. Yikes.

                @Zoe- My white tea contains 15 mg of caffeine per serving and my Rooibos and green teas have zero. There are dozens of Celestial Seasonings style herbal teas that are also decaffeinated. I don't understand the context of referencing teas that are highly caffeinated. For instance if you tell me dark chocolate is a tasty dessert I could replace my Ding dongs with and I tell you "no thanks Hershey bars are loaded with sugar"; that's not really anything except a red herring.

                @coffee zombies: enjoy your coffee if you must! I just don't understand addiction as a comfort food when you have made such strides in other parts of your diet to cut out the crap. I would think that increased cortisol levels, cortisol resistance, chemical dependence, would be sure sign that your body is not better for regularly consuming coffee.

                coffee == evil!

                There's a big brown elephant in the corner of a lot of so called Primals cupboards! Can act like the dependence and negative affect on your cortisol levels doesn't exist! But it does! And he's real! And he's staining your teeth!
                ad astra per aspera

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                  coffee == evil!
                  For what it's worth, I dropped my 4-cup a day habit cold two months ago and noticed absolutely no direct benefits. Now I'll have a cup every few days because I like the taste. Your crusade against coffee seems personal and anecdotal at best. Obviously if someone has a caffeine sensitivity they should avoid it...but it's not as bad for the average joe as you keep saying.
                  Last edited by carlh; 01-17-2011, 02:16 PM.
                  carl's cave

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                  • #39
                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_coffee

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                    • #40
                      heh...I gave up caffeine for YEARS in my ongoing battle with insomnia. I didnt sleep any better and was just tired ALL the time (I think 15 years is long enough to detox right?). I needed to nap daily. I was barely functional. I worked with a doctor on adrenal fatigue and cortisol levels and was getting nowhere.

                      About a year ago I started drinking coffee as a social thing after morning workouts. 1-2 cups in the morning and I started sleeping MUCH better and having the energy to go through my day. My doctor measured my hormone levels and says they are performing BETTER than before (spiking early and falling off later...like a normal person)

                      You will pry the coffee out of my cold dead hands.

                      MTA: My husband though, he gets the withdrawal migraines so he avoids caffeine 95% of the time. And when he decides he needs it he gets a much bigger boost. For him it is a maybe once a month thing when the kids keep us up all night sick and he still has to function at work.
                      Last edited by runnergal; 01-17-2011, 02:28 PM. Reason: cause I always have more to say
                      MTA: because it is rare I dont have more to say

                      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - my daughter Age 7

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                      • #41
                        first, i don't see any reason or validity in chastising someone about this.

                        it is one thing to bring up an question of hormonal/adrenal health and talk about what elements of our diets impact that negatively: sugar, alcohol, caffeine, stress (positive and negative), and then discuss how to reduce these things.

                        it's also one thing to assert to someone begging the question regarding coffee that caffeine can have a great impact on one's adrenal health and here is the information regarding that.

                        it is an entirely different thing to become a judgmental PITA about it. it is not my job, or yours, or anyone else's, or ours, to police what people choose to do. we come here to find support and insight about the primal blueprint and our own take on it. sure, i might think that person eats too many "primal" baked goods and that's why s/he is not seeing the results that s/he wants. I might also think that so-and-so is a 'fat drunk' (j/k it's in the CW funnies post). someone else might consider me a complete nut job. my opinion of them is -- guess what? -- none of their business. likewise, their opinion of me is none of my business.

                        what is my business on this website is to provide information and support for whatever choice the person makes even if i disagree. honestly, that's it. so if people here want to continue to consume coffee or alcohol or PUFAs or ding dongs in copious amounts, it isn't any of my business. All i can do it provide articles/opinions when they ask, and that's it.

                        second, i wasn't putting forth a red herring, but rather asserting that tea does contain caffeine, and if we are looking at the effect of caffeine on a system, then even modest amounts of caffeine in tea can be considered. at what point does one (or a group) determine that a certain amount is "acceptable" if caffeine (not coffee!) is the problem for the adrenals, and what the impact of that is? and, who would be more vulnerable to caffeine-adrenal situations than others? are their classes of people for whom it would be more of an issue (eg, adrenal fatigue, pregnant women, etc?)?

                        it's also not really a similar comparison. Dark chocolate vs ding dongs are not quite as night/day as coffee and tea from a flavor standpoint. in your ding dong, you still get chocolate flavor and sweetness, though loads more sugar. and even closer comparison would be telling someone to switch from milk to dark.

                        but with this, there really isn't a coffee-flavored tea. so, even that doesn't function well as a comparative aspect. i think that the closest comparison may be a tea made of acorns, but even that doesn't really taste like coffee (and honestly, i have no clue as to the caffeine aspect of acorn tea).

                        third, i hate to sound like a tea snob, but in truth, i am. celestial seasonings is cheap tea. of course, to keep the tannins low, one must steep it less, which would mean getting even less caffeine. and, i will drink cheap tea, to be honest -- any manner of cheap, bagged tea. but my preference is for high quality, loose leaf teas using my eva solo tea pot. that's just how i am about tea.

                        it is likely that i drink about 1-2 pots of tea daily, and what tea i drink varies from day to day. i currently have (at home) nursing tea (which i don't use and so will be passing on), peppermint tea (a medicinal blend just for me), chamomile, green, and roobois. at the office, we also have black and a non-medicinal peppermint. so, i'm obviously not getting a lot of caffeine.

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                        • #42
                          I was never a coffee drinker till lately. After reading the Bulletproof Exec site I decided I'd drink a single bean roast because it might be "good" as opposed to a blend which is "bad". I feel no ill effects but wonder if it causes fat gain. Dumbest post of the day likely.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                            Coffee is evil. People are so addicted to it though that they see no evil. Seriously give it up for two months, sleep more, switch to tea and you will realize it is just like any other drug people get addicted to. And let's not kid ourselves about the coffee being appealing -- coffee is just a delivery mechanism for hundreds of milligrams of caffeine. Oh it isn't? Why aren't you drinking your drip decaf?

                            coffee and chemical dependency == evil

                            I don't care what Mark Sisson claims! (he does after all want PB to be as easy to adopt as possible - ergo "dairy and coffee are ok")
                            Originally posted by TheFastCat View Post
                            Drink your adrenals out homies. Disfreakingusting.
                            Starbucks to roll out biggest drink size yet - Business - US business - Food Inc. - msnbc.com

                            for more fun- Google "cortisol and coffee" - elevated cortisol levels for up to 18 hours after consuming coffee. Yikes.

                            @Zoe- My white tea contains 15 mg of caffeine per serving and my Rooibos and green teas have zero. There are dozens of Celestial Seasonings style herbal teas that are also decaffeinated. I don't understand the context of referencing teas that are highly caffeinated. For instance if you tell me dark chocolate is a tasty dessert I could replace my Ding dongs with and I tell you "no thanks Hershey bars are loaded with sugar"; that's not really anything except a red herring.

                            @coffee zombies: enjoy your coffee if you must! I just don't understand addiction as a comfort food when you have made such strides in other parts of your diet to cut out the crap. I would think that increased cortisol levels, cortisol resistance, chemical dependence, would be sure sign that your body is not better for regularly consuming coffee.

                            coffee == evil!

                            There's a big brown elephant in the corner of a lot of so called Primals cupboards! Can act like the dependence and negative affect on your cortisol levels doesn't exist! But it does! And he's real! And he's staining your teeth!
                            Whatever......

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Lynna View Post
                              Whatever......
                              Dig that emoticon. I love my good coffee. I'm trying it with coconut oil, which is interesting
                              If you have a problem with what you read: 1. Get a dictionary 2. Don't read it 3. Grow up 4. After 3, go back to 1/ or 2. -- Dennis Blue. | "I don't care about your opinion, only your analysis"- Professor Calabrese. | "Life is more important than _______" - Drew | I eat animals that eat vegetables -- Matt Millen, former NFL Linebacker. | "This country is built on sugar & shit that comes in a box marinated in gluten - abc123

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                              • #45
                                interesting stuff here, trying to get used to black but not liking it

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