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HELP me sate my Groklets!!! Pleeeease!!!

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  • HELP me sate my Groklets!!! Pleeeease!!!

    Okay, so we've been 100% primal since December 1st, 2010.

    Years ago when we switched to traditional foods, including high fat, my children were ravenous for fat and protein, so they ate it like crazy, and that lasted about four months before they leveled out. Between three of them, three years and under and myself and partner, we ate a pound of butter every day, olive oil and all of the fat from our meats. Pretty much everything was a vehicle for butter. But, as I wrote, this leveled off after four months and since then, and until December 3rd, 2010, we had been eating 1/2 lb of butter each day.

    Now, we are not eating butter, but have had a selection of fats liberally included in each meal. Usually we have eggs fried in lard at breakfast, or like today, egg drop soup made with the broth of three spent (pastured) layers with all of their fat mixed into the soup (and there's a LOT of it), lunch was their meat on a BAS with loads of olive oil.

    My concern is that my children ate this, and I had not yet turned away from the sink where I was putting our bowls when the four who can walk (7, 6, 5, and 3 yrs) were asking for food because they were hungry.

    Their meals, like mine, are between 60 and 70% fat calories.

    They seem to want to snack constantly, and some days I just give in because I am tiring of being in the kitchen making food all day long. Their choices when they ask are things like handfuls of dates, apples, bananas, carrots, raisins, and anything else we have that's sweet. Are they needing more carbs? I notice that when they have their carb-out on fruit, they don't eat the protein and fat at their meals, and this means they are even hungrier and become grouchy and pale in the face.

    What is going on? The only differences in our diet in going primal have been in eliminating grains and dairy. All of our other food choices are the same- whole, clean foods, pastured when available, all of the fat, and the main meal in the middle of the day. I have replaced the lost dairy fats with animal fats- chicken, goose, lard, coconut, which we eat liberally. I have replaced the carbs in dairy that they would have had as yogurt (we never ate non-fermented dairy before either), with full-fat coconut milk.

    They haaaate sweet potatoes.

    Does anyone have any advice? Is this the period of filling their nutrient needs now that they are not being flushed out with grains and dairy? How long will this go on? I seriously do not have enough time to prepare the amount of food they are asking for; it is truly unreal how much they are asking to eat. Food is taking over our whole day and that's just not okay, but I really don't know what the alternative is if they are hungry.

    What am I missing?
    Last edited by Imogen; 01-13-2011, 03:39 PM.

  • #2
    No clue, but I"m watching because this could help me with my 5yo.


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    • #3
      This is only my opinion so please take it as that.

      I am a father, and I feel that how clean I eat isn't how my children need to eat. IMO part of being a child is enjoying a nice slice of pizza, or mac n cheese. Metabolism aside, I just feel that they will have the chance to grow up and make lifestyle choices for themselves.

      I support healthy home cooked meals for the family. I support letting them know that fruit is way better than candy etc. However, imho, children shouldnt have to eat ultra clean because their parents do.

      My wife and children eat what I eat, but they will add brown rice or wheat pasta or sweet potatoes etc when they want too. They also will eat bananas and drink juices.

      I hope you find the answer you are looking for.

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      • #4
        Children are not even remotely invincible to IBS, chronic fatigue, fibromyalgia, hypothyroid, hypoadrenia, obesity, type 2 diabetes, emotional/psychological depression, allergies, intolerances, infections, idiopathic autoimmune disorders, vitamin/mineral deficiencies, etc... These are all diet-related maladies. It is important to me that none of these are part of being a child for my children.

        Many/most of the forum members who are here to work through health problems have had them since childhood.

        You are making a lifestyle choice for your children when you serve them mac and cheese, pizza, and rice.

        Thanks for your opinion, but since I asked in the nutrition forum of a Primal discussion board, I've obviously made clear that I have no intention to feed my children the SAD. Your opinion is the most widely held (conventional wisdom) and has resulted in the abovementioned maladies being widely common both in children and adults in North America.

        My children have never eaten the SAD: their childhood is so, so much better than even partly about eating toxic and/or inflammatory food. Most adults will choose the foods they ate as children unless something persuades them otherwise. In my opinion, my children will have their whole adulthood to make poor lifestyle choices; I'm certainly not going to be the one encouraging them to do so as the standard for daily living.

        ETA: My family does eat a lot of "fun" foods, too, because it is important that we enjoy ourselves, of course, and I get that this is likely what you were expressing. I make chocolate balls, "smudge" (a frozen treat made with nutbutter, honey, coconut oil, salt and real vanilla), frozen birthday cakes (the latest was a pecan mango one), and we have a wide variety of foods in general. My children love our food, have had other food from restaurants and others' homes, and they find it usually lacking in flavour.

        I love that my children all but fall over one another when the rhubarb is being handed out from the garden, or peas, or lettuce, or turnips that wintered in the ground. They are very excited about food. We choose to eat real food, though. I really cannot imagine that if you saw my children's excitement about food in general, you'd think they were missing out.

        And, just as an aside, we live on a food-producing farm. Food is a very immediate and important aspect of my family's life.
        Last edited by Imogen; 01-13-2011, 07:03 PM.

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        • #5
          If they tolerate dairy, then I would feed them cheese, preferably raw. Their bodies may be craving the vitamins A & K they were getting from the butter. It will also give them some carbs.
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          • #6
            I would absolutely do that, but they are all intolerant, at least for now. By the end of the second day grain-free, they had bright red circles around their eyes and beet-red ears immediately following having a bowl of full-fat, organic yogurt (no sweeteners, no additives of any kind). I don't have access to raw milk, but the same thing happened when they ate raw, aged cheddar.

            I thought about the A1/A2 issue and I'm going to see if we can obtain some raw goat's milk to see if they'd tolerate it.

            We're all of European ancestry, and I am hoping that once our guts are healed, we can eat fermented milk products.

            Do you think the coconut milk isn't heavy enough? Or is it potentially an insulin issue that milk addresses, but coconut doesn't?

            I'm nursing our baby; maybe I should pump for the others and just eat for six, lol.

            ETA: we all take cod liver oil for A & D, plus extra D3, and I'm not sure about K. Going to look it up. Thanks!

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            • #7
              Can you give them extra carbs at meals (carrots, turnips, sweet-ish vegetables? Potatoes?) and protein/fat-based snacks? That might keep them more even-keeled... I struggle with this with my daughter too, but things seem to go better when she gets meals that include some carbs (yogurt with fruit for breakfast, along with her salami or cheese; carrot sticks and dip for lunch with some meat, etc.) in the main meals and then just fat/protein for snacks (or something like nuts, which she likes but not to the point of eating too much). However, I still find that she's apt to fill up on snacks and then not eat dinner, which is frustrating.... anyway, I hear you, good luck, I'll be watching this thread for ideas!

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              • #8
                Are they getting enough protein? Maybe keep hard boiled eggs on hand in quantity at all times?

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                • #9
                  when you ask your children what they are hungry for what do they want?
                  i would take their answer and listen to that. it may be different for each of them and it may not.
                  though i have not been primal/paleo for very long i think if your kids have been eating foods outside of the SAD diet that letting their intuition guide them in satiating their hunger would be the starting point and then tweaking it as you go.
                  journal

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                  • #10
                    Once their guts heal from no grains, I imagine they will be able to tolerate dairy again. This is true for me, as long as I eat fermented or raw dairy. I was able to tolerate goat's dairy pre-Primal and now I can eat cow's dairy no problem.

                    The snacking doesn't sound abnormal. Given that kids grow so fast (and run around so much), they may well need more calories. Growth spurt? Can you up the fat even more and maybe add some white rice to their meals?

                    Pre-make snacks for the week and put them in a special part of the fridge? Carrot & celery sticks with almond or cashew butter?
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                    • #11
                      Hi - I wasn't Primal when my children still lived at home; however, I did feed them as healthily as I knew how at the time. This incuded a lot of beans/legumes (because I was also a dirt-poor single Mom when my kids were really small), home-grown veggies, and as much as possible, farm-fresh meat from the same co-op that my parents had been in when I was a child. We ate whole-grain everything because we didn't know any better. Pre-packaged, sugary-sweet, junky treats and sodas were verboten in our home. I did the best according to what I believed was best for my family. As I learned more and knew better, then I did better.
                      The good health habits that my parents taught to me, and my children learned from me, we all still practice to this day. So you have my wholehearted support for trying to instill the optimum PB lifer style practices in your kids. It's a gift (I also gave my kids a love for the outdoors, permission to play, a solid understanding of the value of sleep, and inquisitive minds-- don't forget to instill all of the other aspects of the PB lifestyle. It's not just the diet, right?
                      As for all of the cooking you are doing, one suggestion is to have all of your kiddie help you plant and maintain a bigger garden. The oldest several are big enough to go out and harvest single servings. They can plant, pick and eat cherry tomatoes, green beans, zucchini, and other veggies raw, any time they want.
                      Another thing you might try is preparing much bigger portions, then teach your groklets to take a small portion, wait a few minutes to see if they feel full, then take another portion if they are still hungry. That's an important skill for them to learn.
                      Keep finger veggies and fruits handy. Jerky is another good snack to have around, as well as nuts.
                      Good luck, and keep us posted!

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                      • #12
                        What about adding in some nut butters? Instead snacks of fruits and veggies alone - apples with almond butter, celery with cashew butter, etc. My nephews love sitting at the table shelling pistachios to eat with apple slices.
                        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                        http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                        • #13
                          I agree kids don't need all the junk and setting healthy goals and choices are good.
                          This is what we have found we have eaten this way for yrs do to sons allergies..
                          hubby and daughter were only having bread on special dinners and maybe a sandwich or pasta
                          only when we where out but that has all changed
                          I am 100% primal all the time, hubby maybe 80% , daughter 100% other then a couple of special meals
                          maybe once or twice a month if out of house..home meals are always 100% yr around

                          My son has gluten and dairy allergies... as a yr around swimmer he found he need more quick carb and
                          calcuim we ended up add in rice milk made him feel a lot better, and it is made from brown rice..
                          so I felt it was a good choice for those extra carbs.
                          He also eats alot of wild brown rice not the quick cook kind and sweet potatoes w/ pumpkin spice and butter.
                          also likes almond butter on apple with bacon on it.. once or twice a month he may have a baked potatoe
                          He always make sure that if he has a carby snack that it has fat also.

                          You might keep this in mind children are like little athalete's on the go all the time needing more
                          carbs then the average person..they are sprinters all day...and they need healthy carb fuel
                          unless they sit infront of the TV all the time, which it sounds like your children are active all the time so,
                          I would go for the more carb

                          My son could never eat what others did he always took his own food everywhere and still does..
                          he is in college now and is still eating the same
                          he gets really sick if not..

                          My daughter 17 eats mostly primal.
                          no allergies and has read the PB book..
                          also a yr. swimmer and marching band,dance and on the go 24x7.

                          If at home or her lunch box 100% primal, but when she goes out w/ friends
                          or is at friends house. she tries to makes the best choice to what is there, but at times will have pizza or pasta.
                          If that is what is being served. I feel if it is once or twice a month for 1 meal, then it should be just fine. most of the time she
                          makes a primal choice anyway, if it is possible...sometimes her friends will order a pizza and she will just have a salad...

                          she wanted a real BD cake, so I bought one she had one piece and gave the rest away to her friends Instead of bring the rest home .. so I guess
                          she is realizing that 1 serving to feel the need and move on is ok now and then..

                          Moderation and healthy choices is all we can teach and hope they take something away from it...

                          Good Luck
                          Last edited by Eatmydust; 01-13-2011, 08:09 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Okay, so I had some of the same thoughts during dinner tonight that are posted here. I just measured the boys and three of the four of them grew exactly 3/4" in the past 11 weeks, and the seven yr old grew 1/2." They are probably just truly hungry, needing more calories.

                            I would love if they could eat cheese and yogurt because they are such convenience foods!

                            Anyway, they do usually ask for fruits, which is what had me wondering if they need more carbs, but then when they eat the fruit they want, they don't eat enough protein and fat and end up in a cycle of wanting just very sweet fruits all day, and they get very grouchy without enough fat and protein; it's very obvious to me when they're needing some; they get very snippy and impatient, bicker and tussle over minor things. They are all very even-tempered usually, and they rarely don't have enough fat and protein because these are staples at every meal. It's just the snacky days that get that way. They'd eat dried meats though, too. I think we may just not have enough grab-and-go protein/fat foods. Hmmm, must go see the butcher tomorrow.

                            So, I am going to chop up celery and carrots tomorrow morning for them to snack on with almond butter mixed with a bit of coconut oil and salt. For dinner they each had 6-7 oz of ground bison with carrots, giant olives, an apple, and we had 12 oz cups of full-fat (undiluted) coconut milk hot chocolate (cocoa, salt and some honey and maple syrup to sweeten). They are all satisfied now. Thankfully.

                            When I remember that my father was 6'3" when he turned 13 years of age and that Kane's family has lots of 6'3"s and 6'4"s, I guess I just need to figure out how to make sure that they can eat like teenagers now, and that I don't go mad fulfilling their needs for food in the meanwhile before they are ready to prepare their own food on a regular basis. My seven yr old is four foot, four and a quarter inches tall. The three yr old is 40" tall, and he just turned three in November. The six yr old is above the 95th percentile and the five yr old is steady since infancy at 75th percentile.

                            Sooooo, they just need more food. Sigh. Good thing we live on a farm! I'm going to order a few more meat animals I think, lol.

                            Thanks for brainstorming with me!

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                            • #15
                              Glad you are feeling better about it all!
                              For dinner they each had 6-7 oz of ground bison with carrots, giant olives, an apple, and we had 12 oz cups of full-fat (undiluted) coconut milk hot chocolate (cocoa, salt and some honey and maple syrup to sweeten). They are all satisfied now. Thankfully.
                              I assume you added fat to the bison? It's such a lean meat, I always cook it with lard.

                              Oh, yeah and avocado/guacomole dip is a great high fat/high potassium snack.
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