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  • Sublingual B12

    I haven't found a "definitive" B12 post. I have repeatedly heard (e.g. from Dr. Mercola) that anything besides sublingual B12 is useless. What is you folks' take on this? What do you take?
    Ancestral Health Info

    I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

    Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

  • #2
    Animals.

    (Sorry, a bit abrupt... but why would you want supplemental B12 unless you're a vegan? I seem to be missing something here.)
    Last edited by Hilary; 12-06-2010, 05:12 AM. Reason: being less rude

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Hilary View Post
      Sorry, a bit abrupt... but why would you want supplemental B12 unless you're a vegan?
      Oh I dunno... maybe because over a third of the population, including young people, are in the low-normal range or below it for B12? And that's using the standard U.S. reference range which is thought by many to be way too low. The actual prevalence of B12 deficiency is thought to be much higher than reported. I was diagnosed deficient while eating a diet very heavy in 'animals' and correcting that deficiency has made a huge impact on my well-being.

      Hedonist, I took 1000 mcg sublingual cyanocobalamin and it brought my B12 levels from 218 (not good) to over 1000 (very good) in just a few months. Now I take 500 mcg a day for maintenance. There is no known toxicity level for B12 so that is not a worry. I have read several studies that suggest oral B12 is just as effective as sublingual if taken in high doses because your body absorbs a small percentage of it regardless, however most folks opt for the sublingual for maximum absorption.

      I'm frankly surprised that B12 isn't given the same consideration as Vitamin D on this board, given the prevalance of deficiency and the tremendous health repurcussions associated with it. Personally I get my B12 blood levels checked every year along with my Vitamin D.

      http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm

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      • #4
        Some people used to think B12 helped prevent hangovers?

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JEL62 View Post
          Oh I dunno... maybe because over a third of the population, including young people, are in the low-normal range or below it for B12? And that's using the standard U.S. reference range which is thought by many to be way too low. The actual prevalence of B12 deficiency is thought to be much higher than reported. I was diagnosed deficient while eating a diet very heavy in 'animals' and correcting that deficiency has made a huge impact on my well-being.
          Glad I asked! Thanks for the correction. And huh, weird. Any idea how deficiency can arise despite a good diet?

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          • #6
            My two cents on B12:

            Here's a highly-rated book (which I haven't read yet myself, but has many good reviews on Amazon):

            Could it be B12?: An Epidemic of Misdiagnoses
            http://www.amazon.com/Could-Be-B12-E...1652074&sr=1-1

            Here's the Linus Pauling Micronutrient Information Center's page with many details about B12:
            http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocente...ns/vitaminB12/


            Having read that the methyl- form of B12 is by far the most effective (much more than the cyano- form), this is the form I've been using for the last few months:

            Jarrow, Methyl B12 (check out the user reviews in each link):

            5000 mcg
            http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas...enges/117?at=0

            1000 mcg
            http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas...enges/129?at=0
            Last edited by healthseekerKate; 12-06-2010, 09:22 AM.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by JEL62 View Post
              I was diagnosed deficient while eating a diet very heavy in 'animals' and correcting that deficiency has made a huge impact on my well-being.
              [/url]
              JEL62 -- Me too!!! I was convinced I had a thyroid disfunction, had tests and found out thyroid was normal, but I had very, very low normal vitamin B-12. I have been supplementing with the sublingual tablets for about a month now, and am seeing improvement in my moods, energy and even weight loss.

              HealthseekerKate: Great job recommending _Could it be B-12?_. I have read that book, and it is incredibly comprehensive and useful for someone with a B-12 deficiency or a low-normal like me. Very informative. From what I have read, it is better to seek out the methylcobalamine rather than the cyanocobalamine. That's what I've been using and what seems to be most highly recommended for oral supplementation.

              I am happy to see this thread and I hope more people who know about B-12 will contribute.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Hilary View Post
                Animals.

                (Sorry, a bit abrupt... but why would you want supplemental B12 unless you're a vegan? I seem to be missing something here.)
                No problem Hilary. I have two factors that might indicate extra B12. I am old. I take Metformin (which I do hope to get off of soon.)

                Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.
                Ancestral Health Info

                I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

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                • #9
                  Just need to add one more thing: From my readings, I've learned that some people are genetically susceptible to B-12 deficiency because of metabolic problems involving intrinsic factor, a glycoprotien produced by the stomach. An impaired gene can lead to problems with intrinsic factor and thus, a hard time absorbing B-12 and the development of medical problems associated with low levels. Looking back at my family medical history, I can't help but wonder if that might be an issue, so I intend to have my children and myself tested via serum b-12 and urinary MMA. It's definitely not just a problem for vegetarians and vegans.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JEL62 View Post
                    Oh I dunno... maybe because over a third of the population, including young people, are in the low-normal range or below it for B12? And that's using the standard U.S. reference range which is thought by many to be way too low. The actual prevalence of B12 deficiency is thought to be much higher than reported. I was diagnosed deficient while eating a diet very heavy in 'animals' and correcting that deficiency has made a huge impact on my well-being....

                    http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr/2000/000802.htm
                    "Oddly, the researchers [mentioned in Jel's link] found no association between plasma B12 levels and meat, poultry, and fish intake, even though these foods supply the bulk of B12 in the diet. “It’s not because people aren’t eating enough meat,” Tucker said. “The vitamin isn’t getting absorbed.”

                    In the elderly, it’s probably because they don’t secrete enough stomach acid to separate the vitamin from the meat proteins that tightly bind it. But Tucker can only speculate about the reasons for poor absorption of the vitamin from meat among younger adults or why B12 appears to be better absorbed from dairy products than from meats."

                    Hmmm. Could it be because of the grains the agency (USDA) pushes? Just asking.
                    Last edited by Hedonist; 12-06-2010, 12:01 PM.
                    Ancestral Health Info

                    I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                    Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by healthseekerKate View Post
                      Having read that the methyl- form of B12 is by far the most effective (much more than the cyano- form), this is the form I've been using for the last few months...
                      I have read this also, however, given certain budgetary constraints at the time I opted for the cyanocobalamin sublingual. I started to notice significant health benefits at around the 3 week mark, measurable ones, such as my resting heartrate dropping like a stone which allowed me to discontinue the beta-blocker I'd been taking to control my tachycardia for almost seven years. B12 is also a key player in controlling homocysteine levels. I would recommend the methyl form of sublingual to anyone starting out on the supplement, however if you already have the cyanocobalamin form certainly do not toss it. As stated above, it brought my levels up very high very quickly.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hedonist View Post
                        I have two factors that might indicate extra B12. I am old. I take Metformin (which I do hope to get off of soon.)

                        Thanks everyone for the helpful replies.
                        My neighbor last year was a mid-sixties man on metformin. He had multiple health issues that couldn't be diagnosed. Many of them turned out to be the result of a pretty significant B12 deficiency. I have seen a paper that said a large percentage of patients on metformin with nerve symptoms have B12 deficiency. Oral supplements did not work for my neighbor. He had to do the injections AND he couldn't do just once a month, he needed twice a month to keep levels up. So if you start with supplements and they don't work, you may want to consider injections. I did them for years, they are pretty much painless.
                        Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

                        http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jammies View Post
                          My neighbor last year was a mid-sixties man on metformin. He had multiple health issues that couldn't be diagnosed. Many of them turned out to be the result of a pretty significant B12 deficiency. I have seen a paper that said a large percentage of patients on metformin with nerve symptoms have B12 deficiency. Oral supplements did not work for my neighbor. He had to do the injections AND he couldn't do just once a month, he needed twice a month to keep levels up. So if you start with supplements and they don't work, you may want to consider injections. I did them for years, they are pretty much painless.
                          Thanks. I bought some Jarrow 5000 mcg lozenges today and started on them. I don't have any major health issues . . . yet. Could use a bit more energy. Some arthritis.
                          Ancestral Health Info

                          I design websites and blogs for a living. If you would like a blog or website designed by someone who understands Primal, see my web page.

                          Primal Blueprint Explorer My blog for people who are not into the Grok thing. Since starting the blog, I have moved close to being Archevore instead of Primal. But Mark's Daily Apple is still the best source of information about living an ancestral lifestyle.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I've been using sublingual methylcobalamin on and off for about a year now. I did a lot of reading on the subject a while ago, and from what I remember, taking it sublingually bypasses the digestive tract, and thus maximizes absorption. Hydroxycobalamin is also a useful form of B12. I remember reading an article which suggested that taking cyanocobalamin long-term can lead to sublethal cyanide toxicity.

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                            • #15
                              I have been researching B12 deficiency lately and see that it is often a problem of not absorbing B12 properly, rather than low intake. Apparently taking Betaine HCL with meals increases absorption.

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