Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

I am kind of scared

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    1



    @Jayms


    The HGs did not eat much lean meat. They actually searched for fatter meat. They would even leave fresh kills that did not have enough fat.


    Read about rabbit starvation.


    You will learn about this fact if you tried to eat lean meat (say rabbit meat) without adding enough fat. It is a dangerous thing.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit_starvation


    http://www.medbio.info/Horn/Time%201...tefansson1.htm

    Comment


    • #17
      1



      Anand, game meat is inherently lean. In the fall in temperate climes it's getting on fatty, but generally lean. About 2-3% fats. Cordain has done a lot of research on this.


      However, Grok did eat the brains and the marrow, undoubtedly, which ups the fat contents.


      Part of Rabbit Starvation, don't forget, is the lack of many nutrients. Many have nothing to do with fat.

      Comment


      • #18
        1

        [quote]

        What scares me is the fats bit.</blockquote>


        It scares Americans. It doesn&#39;t scare the French.


        People who believe in this myth have been forced to call the French "anomalous" - because they&#39;ve continued eating duck liver pate, etc. - although instructed not to by Americans - but have a lower rate of heart disease than the U.S. does.


        The French can be a pain, but you have to admire their bloody-mindedness.


        The real test, I think, is what known historical populations were eating, cross-checked against their health. It&#39;s been done. Weston Price, an Iowa dentist and the American Dental Association&#39;s Research Chairman, did it back in the 30s. I&#39;d have a look at his book - it can be read free online. Basically, Price found that most "traditional" or "isolated" societies back in the 30s (back when such societies still were "traditional" and "isolated") were consuming far more animal fats than people in 1930s America. But they were healthier. Get past that one - I don&#39;t see how anyone can.


        http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html


        Heart disease was hypothesized to be due to saturated fat. It was just a hypothesis: "that&#39;s all, that&#39;s all, that&#39;s all" ...


        It seems the paediatricians at the University of California at San Francisco no longer believe in the hypothesis - and can tell you why. Why should you?


        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

        Comment


        • #19
          1



          I think Griff has religion! LOL! Good summary, there.

          Comment


          • #20
            1

            [quote]

            The HGs did not eat much lean meat. They actually searched for fatter meat. They would even leave fresh kills that did not have enough fat.
            </blockquote>


            I don&#39;t know who HGs are, but absolutely.


            Primitive people have been observed, after a kill, to eat organ meats, then the fat, and then abandon the rest of the carcass.


            It&#39;s there in numerous ethnographic sources - if anyone had bothered to read them before condemning fat. Samuel Hearne, an early English traveller working for the Hudson&#39;s Bay Company, tried remonstrating with Canadian Indians (probably Chippewa) who were selecting fat cuts, like the tongues, and discarding the rest, because he saw this as "wasteful". He got nowhere:


            http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Northern-Ocean-Samuel-Classics/dp/1894898605/


            It&#39;s also to be observed in the archaeological record at kill-sites, such as the Garney bison kill site. The skeletal remains showed that Indians had killed but not bothered to butcher what would have been leaner beasts at all. And they&#39;d removed the most fat-loaded cuts on the fatter carcasses and left the rest,


            In northern latitudes up to 80% of people&#39;s calorific intake was in the form of fat.


            Perhaps the most dangerous diet of all is one that is low in carbohydrates and low in fat. All primitive peoples avoided that. The body gets depleted of vitamin A, because it&#39;s needed for protein metabolism. You eat like that, sooner of later you get ill. This is actually what happened with early European travellers in North America - before they learnt from the Indians.


            Page 229 onwards:


            http://books.google.com/books?id=kFOw3koWpJ0C

            Comment


            • #21
              1



              Annika, oh, so it&#39;s you who got the last "Fathead" off of Netflix It&#39;s been sitting in my queue for 3 weeks now and it&#39;s still unavailable

              Same with Food,Inc. I had to go out and buy it because it&#39;s impossible to rent those out from anywhere. SAD.

              Comment


              • #22
                1



                Shazkar


                I think you have every right to question this new lifestyle, but hard way is to really learn from all these wonderful people here. Read on your own what they quote then I think you will convince yourself about everything that is being said.


                I went to see a doctor who advocates this lifestyle and his whole nursing staff was obese, really!!!! So you can take things for granted or you can really work hard to educate yourself. I am happy that I changed my ways. By the way I cooked your breakfast since it seemed so good.

                Thanks

                Comment


                • #23
                  1



                  It&#39;s been said by Griff and others (awesome progress by the way Griff!!!), but prove it to yourself. Don&#39;t listen to us on this forum, and don&#39;t listen to anybody else. Have a lipid profile done. Dedicate yourself 100% to the primal lifestyle for whatever period of time you can (I&#39;d recommend 3 months). Have another lipid profile done at the end.


                  If your body composition doesn&#39;t change dramatically (I don&#39;t necessarily mean weight loss), and your lipid profile isn&#39;t improved, then move on to the next idea that looks good to you. I&#39;ll bet anything that if you&#39;re true to the diet and activity for 3 months the changes will be so dramatic you&#39;ll never consider going back.


                  Good luck with whatever you choose!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    1

                    [quote]

                    I think you have every right to question this new lifestyle.</blockquote>


                    Absolutely. And probably one should, in any case, take what many people in "low-carb" circles say with a pinch of salt. They&#39;re not all saying the same. And they don&#39;t all advocate their diets for the same reasons, proffer the same justifications, or speak from the same degree of knowledge.


                    But I think if there&#39;s one issue one can put to rest it&#39;s the "clogged arteries" worries.


                    The historical context really should put this one to rest. Myocardial infarction was virtually unknown in the U.S. before the 1930s. The man who invented the defillibrator was told he&#39;d never make any money for that very reason. (By the 1950s it was the leading cause of death among adult males, so I suppose he did all right in the end!) But if myocardial infarction wasn&#39;t a problem in the 1930s and before, when the American diet was far higher in fats in general, and in saturated fat in particular, how can fat in the diet be its cause? And, again, if people who were eating more fat than Americans - the obvious example here is the Eskimo - were healthier and didn&#39;t suffer from myocardial infarction ... well ... QED.


                    There&#39;s no magic figure for how much fat you need to eat. The diets of these "heathy primitives", these "isolated traditional societies" that were looked at back when they were still around varied quite a bit, and the proportion of fat in their diet varied between 40% and 80%. That&#39;s a pretty wide margin. The diets of people closer to the equator tended to be somewhat lower; in higher latitudes, people tended to eat more fat.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      1



                      Sorry, chocolate chip! I had to wait for "Fathead" from Netflix too - I suppose it&#39;s a good sign that so many people want to see it! I promise to return it tomorrow.


                      I watched "Fathead" with my kids (12 & 14) after watching "Supersize Me". The kids have not been very happy with the family&#39;s move to a localvore and, more recently, a more primal diet. "Fathead" did a good job of explaining the reasons we are sharply reducing our grain intake, and eased my saturated fat fears somewhat. I wouldn&#39;t hand my kids a copy of GCBC and expect them to understand it, and "Fathead" was a good substitute. My carb-loving daughter really seemed to get the message, and asked me to buy more meat for her to pack in her lunchbox. I certainly can&#39;t condone the fast-food diet he was eating, though! I eat fast food much less than once a year.

                      My blog: Pretty Good Paleo
                      On Twitter: @NEKLocalvore

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        1



                        Shazcar, Jayms, Annika...


                        Totally understand your fear about sat fats. I decided to try it for a month and see how I felt and I haven&#39;t looked back since switching.


                        If you&#39;ve seen Fathead or read anything from Mary Enig or Sally Fallon (they appear in Fathead), you might remember them mentioning how vegetable oils became the staple of the American diet and natural sat fats were demonized. It was basically a marketing ploy by the vegetable oil industry.


                        The vegetable oil industry coined the phrase "artery-clogging saturated fats." They needed to demonize natural saturated fats in order to get people to start using their unnatural oils. When these veg oils were first introduced, people wouldn&#39;t touch them because they thought they were crap. But eventually the marketing worked and their message seeped into the threadwork of American life. Now we&#39;re having to relearn what our ancestors knew.


                        I&#39;m summarizing the above from what I&#39;ve heard from Sally Fallon and Mary Enig on podcasts and in Fathead, but Sally Fallon did mention an article they have on their site that talks about saturead fat and vegetable oils and the history of it...I still need to read it, and will do that today...here&#39;s the link:


                        http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          1



                          Arrrgh, I&#39;m having doubts again..... I finally got around to watching Taubes&#39; lecture online, and from there I found a debate between Taubes, Dean Ornish (a low-fat guru), and a woman from the AHA. Here&#39;s the link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4362041487661765149#docid=30786885 94861957257


                          There was lots of arguing and the debate was very disjointed, so it wasn&#39;t very helpful. Taubes came off as a rude, arrogant jerk! That certainly doesn&#39;t mean he&#39;s not correct, but Ornish had some good arguments, particularly a study which showed heart scans of subjects after following a low-fat, whole-foods diet or an Atkins-type diet. The low-fat group had improvements in cardiac blood flow, and the Atkins group had worse blood flow. Here is a description of the study as described on an Atkins-bashing site (the rest of the site had compelling arguments also): http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/45/The_Proof_is_in_the_SPECT_Scan.htm


                          I know Atkins does not equal PB, but my worries about saturated fats have resurfaced. What if Taubes&#39; arguments are wrong or flawed? I&#39;ve read lots of stuff that supports PB; would anyone like to comment on the information presented on the anti-Atkins site?

                          My blog: Pretty Good Paleo
                          On Twitter: @NEKLocalvore

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            1



                            Annika, guess which kind of fats they were eating?


                            Not all Saturated Fats are created equal. A high O6 to O3 ratio can be almost as bad as something deep-fried in McD&#39;s special fryer!


                            We here in PB land make sure that we eat enough O3&#39;s in our foods, fats & supplements to keep the 06&#39;s from turning into Trans Fats.


                            Any low-carb turkey can buy an Atkins bar and eat McD&#39;s hamburgers (sans buns) and have bad cardiac blood flow versus PB folks who focus on GOOD fats.


                            Too much generalization by the media AND scientific &#39;studies&#39; still do not isolate the TRUE issue at hand.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              1



                              You simply NEED to read "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taubes. That Ornish/Taubes "debate" it was no debate. Don&#39;t let that slanted and set-up news article color your opinion of Taubes&#39; (he was obviously frustrated, NOT arrogant) work.


                              http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html


                              But you really should read the book.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                1



                                I HAVE read GCBC and am in the middle of reading it a second time. I&#39;ve read a boatload of stuff in the past couple of months that vindicates saturated fat - it&#39;s been a steep learning curve! But there is much more out there telling us it will kill us. With so much contradiction, what&#39;s a girl to believe? The heart scan pictures really gave me pause.


                                Sassa, you are absolutely right, the article did not say what kind of fats the subjects were eating. There is a world of difference between a grass-fed burger and a Big Mac. I have to keep remembering that I&#39;m eating real, pure food when I get scared.

                                My blog: Pretty Good Paleo
                                On Twitter: @NEKLocalvore

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X