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  • Primal Infant Nutrition

    So.... a few months ago I posted on this fine forum about the pressure we are put under from our paediatrician to feed the Monkey grains, rice, cereals etc... (and candy!!!). The thread was deleted from the forum due to some spamming so I shall include it here for some background:

    Ugh! Just had the Monkey's 7 month check-up and all good except for the heavy dose of dietary dogma.

    She is a small girl (in the <3 percentile weight:height) but fit, strong, able to sit upright by herself, babble, pull herself around and almost almost at the point of crawling. So, in my books — nothing wrong. I will always have the tendency to let her dictate when she is hungry and thirsty and trust her to tell me when she has had enough or needs more. My wife has been happy to continue breast-feeding until she is at least a year with a food-before-one-is-just-for-fun outlook. And, up to this point, my wife has also been happy to play along with my no-needless-carbs-why-start-your-kid-on-a-diet-of-junk-food bent.

    But this morning the doctor basically called me a fool for not feeding the Monkey rice, and cereals, and cookies with her fruit everyday; you need the minerals, vitamin b, and intestinal stimulation provided by the above foods. Nothing will replace them. Studies have shown that if children are not given all this crap before they are 6 months then they are at risk of celiac disease. Apparently. She must eat rice and cereals.

    Thing is, I am on the bottom rung of this particular ladder, staring at the soles of the shoes of all you practised primal noshers. I could (and did) counter something along the lines of cookies being loaded with sugar, cereals being empty calories — why get your fill from baby rice when you could ingest a bunch of vitamins, fats, and other goodies too from the avocados, fresh fruits, broccoli, chicken, etc... — and the fact that those minerals from rice are from whole-grain brown rice and they are pretty much absent in the white baby rice slop on offer. But I wasn't convincing enough and now we have a dissenter in the ranks who thinks our dearest loved one is going to be intolerant to all 'foodstuffs' if we carry on holding off on the crap. My wife has a (self-admitted) tendency to bow to authority so I was always on a hiding-to-nothing by the simple fact that the Doc wore a lab coat and was called Doc. And when the Doc said it would help her put on weight too I knew I had lost. My cries of 'its inflammation' or 'its not how she wants to put on weight - it's water' fell on deaf ears.

    Please help: I need well-reasoned primal arguments or substitutes for the apparent lack of certain minerals, vitamin b, fibre, and tolerance to celiac disease so that the Monkey can carry on being a monkey and not a sloth or hyena (depending on how much sugar she gets, and what stage of sugar rush or insulin slump she is in).

    Or maybe I need to give her rice as a compromise. Surely not.

    Thanks,
    Adam

    I got some *fantastic* responses from the community with regards to all this; I am just sorry that all the responses were deleted. Ho Hum

    Anyway, the story continues somewhat with the demands from the paediatrician becoming more forceful and said with an 'if you dont feed her grains we might have to take it to the next level' kind of tone; coupled with her actually poking my wife, I feel it's time to change paediatrician.

    So I found alimmenta.com, a company made entirely of nutritionists and dieticians to ask where I could possibly find a paediatrician in Barcelona that understood nutrition, and would respect our wishes as a primal family to bring out child up in the same manner (my wife, having devoured the large majority of your site, is now a firm believer).

    To my email they replied (translated):

    Cereals form an essential part of the human diet and are necessary for complete development.
    All civilisations have in their diet a prominent presence of carbohydrates en cereal form: rice, wheat, and corn are only examples

    I cannot recommend any paediatrician that would respond to your needs. I don't know where you got your beliefs from but, in my opinion, they don't have a scientific base. My recommendation is that you give your child diet that is as complete as possible.
    Jesus!

    There is no basis for the pedo (I like to call her that as she seems intent on doing the Monkey more harm than good) to be concerned. All milestones are being met; as is normal, on somethings she is behind the curve, on others she is a fair way ahead. Using the WHO's most recent growth standards (yes, the pedo's charts are outdated too) she is in the 5% for her weight, ~10% for length and weight:length ratio. She is bright and sparky, strong, willful, and franky a bit of a handful sometimes - all good.

    Why do I feel like I'm fighting a no-win?

    Adam

  • #2
    If you can't find a pediatrician that agrees with your thoughts on how to feed your baby, just smile and nod when your current ped gives advice and carry on doing what feels right to you. Your pediatrician is not feeding your baby, YOU are.

    In other words, don't make this a fight at all.
    Liz.

    Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
    Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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    • #3
      When she is all but explicitly threatening to get social services involved AND getting physical with my wife it moves beyond 'nod and smile, nod and smile'. It is not time to fight, it is time to move. I was hoping to just change doctor, not country - haha

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      • #4
        Then lie.
        Liz.

        Zone diet on and off for several years....worked, but too much focus on exact meal composition
        Primal since July 2010...skinniest I've ever been and the least stressed about food

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        • #5
          A fine tactic lizch unless you know my wife and I. Honestly, my wife *cannot* lie. And I am the worst liar in the entire world. Every now and and again I try, but get called out every time. Useless.

          Thanks for your input though - it is much appreciated

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          • #6
            Wow. That is terrible.

            You should just keep doing what you know is right. Try to come up with counter points to arguements. Fiber? From veggies. Vitamins? from meat and veggies and more easily assimilated into the human body. I can't even think of any other reasons they may have...

            I took a look at the baby cereal that my boyfriend's sister is feeding her baby and it's all wheat and rice flours and then it's fortified. So it looks like the nutrition label has all these nutrients, but they're mostly added in. So ridiculous.

            ETA:

            After FULLY reading your post and responses, I think that lizch has the right answer... you're probably just going to have to lie. "Oh yes we feed her cereal" (and by cereal we mean a mush that we make up of a some almond flour, some banana and breast milk, ahahah)

            This doc in particular does seem like a huge ass though. Even though you were not recommended a pediatrician, I'm sure that you can find one who is not so completely closed-minded.
            Last edited by lcme; 12-02-2010, 09:55 AM.

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            • #7
              I would definitely find a new care provider. We have been very happy with our naturopath.
              Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
              Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
              Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

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              • #8
                Really, why should the subject even come up, when your child's in the pink of health?

                I'm glad to hear you and your wife are together on this now: that's great news.

                And wow, in your shoes I would be irate. It's good that you can come here and vent, and stay calm, smiling, rational and sweet-natured in the doctor's office. I think that's probably important... keep the dr from feeling she's being attacked/ threatened.
                Last edited by Hilary; 12-02-2010, 10:16 AM. Reason: just read what you said about not being able to lie.

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                • #9
                  Can I ask why you are seeing a pediatrician repeatedly? I ask this seriously as there really is no reason to keep going unless there is a severe illness. They are not educated about nutrition or immunolgy or breastfeeding (which I hope you are still doing) or family beds (and NOT letting a baby "just" cry it out).

                  Maybe you are vaccinating? If so do your research. A great place to start are the forums at www.mothering.com. Just go to the tab labeled "community." And there is a Subforum on vaxes. They also have forums in Spanish. So if you don't vax there is no real reason to go. Maybe if you like go once a year for giggles and statistics and lie about food or tell the doctor he truth - that it is none of his/her business.
                  Last edited by Muppet; 12-02-2010, 10:34 AM.
                  Home birthing legal mama. Unschooler. Jewish Intactivist (step away from the foreskin!). Full-term breastfeeder. Kettlebell padawan.

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                  • #10
                    I would look at finding a new pediatrician who's up to speed on the WHO recommendations for Breastfeeding. WHO Recommends exclusively feeding breast milk for the first 6mth, with limited introductions of solid foods there after and continued breastfeeding for beyond 1 year (goal is 2yrs bfing). The introductions of these foods are for practice, and socialization at the dinner table. An Infant does not NEED solids of any way shape or form in their first year of life BREAST MILK IS ALL THEY NEED! (I apologize for the shouty! this is a touchy subject for me) Most doctors do not know about breast milk, and how it nourishes a baby. They follow the 40+years of infant formula use, and assume a baby NEEDS to be on solids at 6mths. The only thing bf babies might need is a VitD supplement 1x/day w/emb or in a puree of sweetpotato

                    Your pediatrician has outdated information, find a new one asap, and when you interview them - ask them if they are upto speed on the WHO standards for breastfeeding infants.

                    also, have a look into Baby Lead Solids (also called baby lead weaning - even though you're not weaning) I give my 7mth old anything off my plate that I'm willing to eat. Last night we had pork and apples and a salad. I chewed up some pork to the point it would be easy for him to squish around in his mouth and gave him some cooked apples as well. The night before he had home made Spaghetti sauce over spaghetti squash - Babies don't need pureed jar food. (granted my daycare provider expects it, so I give them 1 tbls to feed him + 12oz of expressed breastmilk; & some times they give him puffs and such I figure that's ok -b/c at home he's not getting it)

                    There's no reason BLS can't be substituted for CW. BLS is very popular in Europe, and just now gaining traction here in the US.
                    The most depraved type of human being is the man without a purpose. ~ Ayn Rand
                    What's your purpose? Mine is Optimal Health.

                    Converted to PB November 2010
                    SW 190lb
                    Leptin Reset Redux (1Sep 2011) SW 170lbs
                    25 Sep 2011 160lbs
                    1 Dec 2011 158lbs!
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                    5'3"
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                    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread40609.html

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Muppet View Post
                      Can I ask why you are seeing a pediatrician repeatedly? I ask this seriously as there really is no reason to keep going unless there is a severe illness. They are not educated about nutrition or immunolgy or breastfeeding (which I hope you are still doing) or family beds (and NOT letting a baby "just" cry it out).

                      Maybe you are vaccinating? If so do your research. A great place to start are the forums at www.mothering.com. Just go to the tab labeled "community." And there is a Subforum on vaxes. They also have forums in Spanish. So if you don't vax there is no real reason to go. Maybe if you like go once a year for giggles and statistics and lie about food or tell the doctor he truth - that it is none of his/her business.
                      I know in Ohio, if you do not present a current vaxination record with everything done, they will not let your child into school. At least for Ohio, it's the law.

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                      • #12
                        I do a lot of smiling and nodding. I'd get a new ped, start fresh, and avoid the diet topic all together. When they ask what she eats, just say 'everything!' You can tell them she eats a*wide balance of foods and eats anything you put in front of her and loves her fruits and veggies (they'll love that.) The only thing I've been asked about specifically was milk (we don't do dairy though), and I'm still nursing and we both do lots of leafy greens (they worry about calcium) and both supp D, so there has been no issue there.

                        Good luck! If you can't lie, just avoid the topic, and share what they want to hear. Lame? Yes. But its not worth fighting a battle you cannot win (trying to get a doc who pushes the food pyramid etc to believe in the benefits of primal eating!)
                        My Before/After Pics
                        Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

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                        • #13
                          ===
                          Last edited by Ms. Fai; 10-08-2011, 03:30 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Abuwabu,
                            I would be finding another pediatrician. You do not need your current doctor to recommend another doctor, cause really they want your money, and don't want you to go anywhere else. I had to go through four different doctors before I found the right one when my son was getting his vax's. But it was well worth it. When you switch doctors, the new doctors office will get your baby's records from the old ones. You won't have to do anything.

                            If you have friends with children see what doctors they go to. You could always ask to speak with the nurse and interview them before you decide to bring your baby to them. But don't continue to go to this doctor. I truly believe she is out dated with her information, really stuck in the CW mindset, and will warp anyone's mind that she can. Find a doctor you and your wife are happy with, there are plenty out there, don't just settle.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Ms. Fai View Post
                              Wow. Does your paediatrician actually have the power to force grains upon your daughter? Can they get the law involved? Here in the Uk we have health visitors, and they're only there to advise, not to enforce. Funny, if you were vegans I wonder if they would be forcing animal meat on your daughter?
                              No, a pediatrician can not force any type of food on a kid! They can suggest, but they can not force anything. If she even goes through with her threat (which I doubt she will) She can call social services, and extend the truth saying the kid is being abused. She would be lying! But social services might investigate, they would interview family memebers, friends of the family, schools/daycare, and evaluate. And when the parents sit down with the investigative person, they would say we don't feed our child grains because we believe it is bad for her. The lady will look at the parents, and wonder why she was even called. If a child has a roof over her head, a warm bed, clothes, food, and even a few toys.. if she is happy, energetic, smart... nothing will happen. You folks have nothing to worry about. Social Services has worse cases to deal with involving drunk/drug addicted parents who keep having babies just to get a bigger welfare check! They will look at your family and will think that child is blessed vs. the kids that have to deal with abusive parents everyday.

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