Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

japanese and white rice

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • japanese and white rice

    this is a question i've been wanting to ask all the "no grain, grains are bad for you" people. the japanese have the longest life expectancy, they are thin and healthy, and they eat white rice everyday. usually with every meal. i've been to japan many times, and you just don't see fat/overweight people there. the same with koreans - my parents live there. koreans eat sooooooo much rice, and the ones who have managed to avoid the processed western food/fast food are pretty healthy looking. my mom is underweight (5'1" and about 90 lbs on a good day) and she's been eating rice 3x a day for her whole life. what's the deal????????????

  • #2
    You may enjoy this thread:

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...highlight=rice
    Using low lectin/nightshade free primal to control autoimmune arthritis. (And lost 50 lbs along the way )

    http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

    Comment


    • #3
      White rice has had all the phytotoxins removed and is, essentialy, just starch. Mark writes about it here.
      Ancestral Nutrition Coaching
      Pregnancy Nutrition Coaching
      Primal Pregnancy Nutrition Article

      Comment


      • #4
        Gimme some meat protein please, Asians might be trim and lean but I do not want my kids to grow to 5'3"...I want my kids at 6'

        BTW, my folks fed me carbs and sugars growing up...my dad and uncles are 5'11" or so...I am the runt.
        Primal/Paleo is not for everyone, it's for those who have committed to understand.
        READ THE BOOK! ...as Robb Wolf says: "Trying to convince people to save their own ass will burn you out."

        Vegetarians are the enemy of everything good and decent in the human spirit, and an affront to all I stand for -- the pure enjoyment of food.” Anthony Bourdain

        and yes, calories DO count my little piggies

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by pucca View Post
          the japanese have the longest life expectancy, they are thin and healthy, and they eat white rice everyday.
          They are slender, yes. Healthy? Not really. They are constantly tired and catching colds. Granted, a lot of that has to do with their self-sacrificing work ethic. They may have little body fat, but they also don't have much lean tissue, either. You'll find that the ones that are truly healthy and strong are the ones who eat a larger proportion of meat.

          As for the longevity argument, yeah, they do live longer, but I would rather cash out at 70 than live another 20 years as a decrepit, bent old bag of Japanese bones. Go to rural Japan and take a look at the old folks there. More osteoporosis and other bone disfiguration than you see in third-world countries.
          You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

          Comment


          • #6
            Interestingly, there are at last report about a quarter-million fewer old people in Japan than previously thought.
            http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2010/08..._have_any.html
            "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

            Comment


            • #7
              They are short. They eat at a bare sustinence level which allows them to stay thin.

              Comment


              • #8
                Mark's take on rice: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/is-rice-unhealthy/

                From the post:
                White Rice
                Mostly neutral. A 100g dose (raw) contains:

                80 g carb
                1 g fiber
                0.6 g fat
                7 g protein
                0.07 mg thiamin
                1.6 g niacin
                0.8 mg iron
                25 mg magnesium
                Pretty meager, right? Not many nutrients, pretty high in starchy carbs – eating white rice and nothing but will lead to nutritional deficiencies fast, but not because white rice is leeching nutrients from you. It’s simply a matter of displacement. White rice replaces other, more nutritious foods, and in some cases, it acts as a vehicle for negative foods, like rancid oils and sugar.

                <snip>

                It’s not black and white. Rice exists on one end of the “grain suitability” continuum. You know how I’ve discussed the dairy continuum? Raw, grass-fed one on end and low-fat, homogenized, ultra-pasteurized on the other. It’s the same for grains. High-gluten wheat on one (very bad) end and rice on the other (don’t lose sleep if you eat it) end. Do I recommend ditching the entire group altogether, just to make things easy and avoid any possible irritants? Sure, but if grain consumption presents itself, or you literally are hamstrung by finances and simply need some calories, you shouldn’t beat yourself up over it just because you ate some white rice.

                Rice can even be a vehicle for the good stuff – for butter, ghee, coconut. It can also be a vehicle for the bad stuff – for vegetable oils, for sugar. In fact, it’s the essential neutrality of rice that makes it what it is. The problem with rice in most people’s diets is twofold: it serves as a vehicle for processed fat and sugar; and overweight, insulin-resistant folks with damaged metabolisms can’t handle the glucose load.

                Rice fried in rancid corn oil? Avoid.
                Rice fried in homemade ghee? Not so bad, necessarily.
                Rice if you’re trying to lose weight? Avoid.
                Rice if you’re lean and active? Not so bad, necessarily.

                The Asian Paradox
                This probably deserves a full post, but I’ll briefly discuss it here. I’m not going to sit here and claim that Asians don’t actually eat rice. They do. And they have for centuries while maintaining pretty good health and staying fairly lean. That’s changing nowadays, though, with the Westernization of their food. They’re eating more sugar and using vegetable oils for cooking, rather than traditional animal fats. These factors are deranging their metabolisms, turning the relatively benign rice starch into an enemy. It just suggests that carbs, in and of themselves, are benign in a metabolic vacuum. If you have everything else going right – insulin sensitivity, regular activity, absence of metabolic deranging foods like fructose, lectins, and excessive linoleic acid – pure starchy carbs aren’t going to be a big problem. But, especially in the States, we live in anything but a nutritional vacuum. We aren’t starting from ground zero. The overweight perimenopausal wife and mother of three working 50 hours a week is not starting from square one. She has an issue with glucose, one that might not be cured in a lifetime. For a person like that, avoidance of rice is recommended and probably necessary.

                We have to face facts. Deranged has become normal. Glucose intolerance – or perhaps “mishandling” is better – has become standard. Where rice belongs in your life depends on where you fall on the metabolic derangement continuum.
                There is a thread discussing the Perfect Health Diet (a paleo/primal diet + starchy carbs) which also talks about white rice. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ct-Health-Diet

                White rice is basically a starchy carb with little/no nutrients--BUT the antinutrients/phytates etc. typically found in whole grains have been stripped so its easier to digest, and it is also gluten free which is VERY important. It's basically a starchy filler, and for *some*, does not cause harm. For others (those w/ metabolic syndrome, those trying to lose weight, etc.) it can wreak havoc. (There are WAY more folks in the West dealing w/ metabolic syndrome than the East, I believe, which matters in all this.) I think it depends on YOU whether or not it works for you. It is NOT primal, but probably, from what I've read, the best of all the grains if you're going to eat it.
                My Before/After Pics
                Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Dragonfly View Post
                  White rice has had all the phytotoxins removed and is, essentialy, just starch. Mark writes about it here.
                  btw, the phytates and enzyme inhibitors in grains, beans and nuts (yes, nuts have a lot of phytates too, AND enzyme inhibitors) can be mostly eliminated by soaking. which is why i try to always soak my nuts, and when i eat grains and beans, which is rarely, i always soak them before cooking. i wonder why mark only talks about the phytates in grains but not in nuts? or has he talked about soaking nuts and i've just missed it?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    What about Spanish and Hispanic? Just about daily rice eaters too. What statistics are there about those fine folk?

                    They seem to be fairly robust and healthy. Last I heard, Puerto Ricans had a longer life expectancy than continental USA er's. Also, recently, Mercola had a report that Hispanics had greater life expectancy than other non-hispanic Americans. Remember that hispanics share a culture but include many races and combinations of those races.

                    I don't remember too many people with bone problems in Spain or the Canary Islands. Nor in the Caribbean or any of the South and Central American countries I have visited.

                    Anyone have hard facts about those rice eaters?
                    Tayatha om bekandze

                    Bekandze maha bekandze

                    Randza samu gate soha

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Grumpy Caveman View Post
                      They are slender, yes. Healthy? Not really. They are constantly tired and catching colds. Granted, a lot of that has to do with their self-sacrificing work ethic. They may have little body fat, but they also don't have much lean tissue, either. You'll find that the ones that are truly healthy and strong are the ones who eat a larger proportion of meat.

                      As for the longevity argument, yeah, they do live longer, but I would rather cash out at 70 than live another 20 years as a decrepit, bent old bag of Japanese bones. Go to rural Japan and take a look at the old folks there. More osteoporosis and other bone disfiguration than you see in third-world countries.
                      I agree with you. It's sad to see here in Tokyo. Women stooped over. Could be Vitamin D deficiency. Could be a lack of nutrients during the war years. A lot of women avoid the sun here. Not so much in Okinawa where everyone seems to be a lot healthier.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I grew up in some hispanic neiborhoods, and from what I saw, slender wasn't a very good descriptor as my neigbors passed into their 40s and 50s, and didn't get better with age.
                        sigpicI'm not old, I'm Vintage!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 979roadrunner View Post
                          I grew up in some hispanic neiborhoods, and from what I saw, slender wasn't a very good descriptor as my neigbors passed into their 40s and 50s, and didn't get better with age.
                          I am assuming that these were neighborhoods in continental USA----where junk food rules. I was writing about Spanish in Spain and the Canary Islands, and Hispanics in Latin America. Mercola's article was about new arrivals --first and second generation in the USA states--who still tended to eat real food--and lots of rice.

                          I do not know statistics. I am seeking.
                          Tayatha om bekandze

                          Bekandze maha bekandze

                          Randza samu gate soha

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by pucca View Post
                            btw, the phytates and enzyme inhibitors in grains, beans and nuts (yes, nuts have a lot of phytates too, AND enzyme inhibitors) can be mostly eliminated by soaking. which is why i try to always soak my nuts, and when i eat grains and beans, which is rarely, i always soak them before cooking. i wonder why mark only talks about the phytates in grains but not in nuts? or has he talked about soaking nuts and i've just missed it?
                            I don't know about "mostly eliminated". I've read in many places that it helps diminish the antinutrients and phytates, but does not eliminate them totally (and nor does sprouting or roasting.)

                            I've always felt the paleo world does not get deeply enough into the issue of nuts/seeds and the antinutrients. From what I've read, they contain as much or more antinutrients than grains and legumes (see here: http://www.westonaprice.org/food-fea...ytic-acid.html)

                            Mark actually does have a post on the topic here and talks about soaking them: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soaking-seeds-and-nuts/

                            I think the major thing about nuts/seeds is to eat them in moderation (meat and veg should be the bulk of most folks' primal diets), and soak/sprout and/or roast them if possible prior to eating. But, if you're eating an oz or less a day, its not going to have the impact eating 6 servings of unsoaked whole grains a day would have as far as blocking nutrient absorption, etc. Folks who eat lots of nuts every day (either eaten straight or in the form of almond flour baked goods, etc,) are the ones who really need to be sure to properly prepare them (by soaking or sprouting etc.)

                            In addition, most nuts (except macadamias) contain LOTS of omega 6s. More than I'd care to take in on a daily basis personally. They are definitely a condiment or rare snack for me. (I also seem to gain weight if I eat more than 1 oz a day, which also motivates me to limit consumption.)
                            My Before/After Pics
                            Are you new here? Be sure to check these links FIRST, before reading anything on the forum! Succeed & PB 101

                            "I am a work in progress." -Ani DiFranco

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by periquin View Post
                              I am assuming that these were neighborhoods in continental USA----where junk food rules. I was writing about Spanish in Spain and the Canary Islands, and Hispanics in Latin America. Mercola's article was about new arrivals --first and second generation in the USA states--who still tended to eat real food--and lots of rice.

                              I do not know statistics. I am seeking.
                              I grew up in Peru and recently went back for two weeks.

                              White rice is a staple for sure, but I'm trying hard to think about a staple food we have (an entree) that doesn't have a meat protein in it. We have some famous sides and apps that are potato based, or not meat based but by and large Peruvians at least eat a lot of protein. We always have chicken, beef, fish, duck, pork, etc and almost always with a side of rice and maybe 1 or 2 veggies thrown in. We mostly eat veggies in soup. We definitely like our beans and white potatoes too.

                              As far as lean-ness goes it's all over the place, most youth are somewhat slim, there isn't much overweight in teens unless the whole family is a little pudgy. Adults definitely are "water retentive" as I've started calling people that are pudgy but not flat-out overweight, I attribute this to all the starches we eat. Middle-class Peruvians (the class I belonged to and went back to) do daily cooking for the most part, and in our neighborhood there's a market close-by (would anybody be interested in a short video of that? I just remembered I shot one where I speak English for my gf to understand when I got back home...) with a lot of variety when it comes to what you can buy, even though it's not a big market. Most folks on a tighter budget will buy white rice, potatoes, some legumes and some protein.

                              I'm not sure what life expectancy is but in my experience most have been folks over 70. My paternal grandpa was 74 but he is a bad example because he died of emphysema, both my grandmas are still alive, one is 86 the other is 76 and they live about 9 hours apart, the 76 year old lives where there's more sun but the diet is very similar. My maternal grandfather passed after 70 but not sure what his age was. Aside from that I can't remember a single instance of anybody dying due to weight issues, but then again, I haven't been in the country since 2000 and things are getting more and more Westernized over there. Big supermarkets are sprouting up (thanks a lot, Chile!) but I think the convenience of walking down the block and the social aspect of buying from people you know won't go away easily unless the gov steps in and "cleans up" or something.

                              I think this could apply to our neighbors Ecuador, Bolivia and Colombia. I'm pretty sure the Argentine are a bit different (higher meat consumption, possibly less rice) and not sure about Chile because almost all of South America generally dislikes Chile. I wouldn't be surprised if they ate children's hearts.


                              I kid.
                              I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X