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  • Free T4, T3, and thyroid antibodies results.

    I just got these results over the phone. The nurse I spoke to said everything was "normal". Yay, so why do I still feel like crap?

    Free T3 -2.9 Ref Range 2.3-4.2
    Free T4 -1.2 Ref Range .8-1.8
    Thyroglobulin antibodies-no value, just <20 which is normal
    TSH receptor antibodies-no value, <6.0, again normal

    CRP-.64, <.80 normal

    Are these numbers really okay?. They look fine, I really thought something would come back out of range. Now I don't know where to go from here. I have another appt on monday with another doctor.
    Just wanted some opinions from the experts here at MDA if this is really "normal", not just within range. Thoughts?
    Oh yeah, My TSH when measured on the 1st was 2.4. I have a lot of low thyroid symptoms, the worst being chronic fatigue, and "brain fog". Maybe there's something else causing me to be so tired.

  • #2
    Personally, for me... TSH over 1 ish or 1.5 and I have thyroid symptoms.

    Your Free T3 is at the very bottom of the range.. most peeps don't feel right until they're in the upper 1/3 of the range.

    I would suggest going over to about.com and/or stop the thyroid madness and look over test results and other items. The fact is there are so many things that can be going on with your thyroid that it can take a while to wade through it all.

    I'm sure one of the other girls will have more helpful info!
    sigpic "Boy I got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals" - Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid

    Comment


    • #3
      They may be normal, all right, but normal and optimal are two different things.

      Free T3 you typically want at or above the top end fo the range-the range, once upon a time, went up to 6.2. Ranges are statistically derived, they have no basis in optimal functionality.

      Free T4 you typically want in the upper third. 1.8-.8 = 1.00, /3 = .33, *2 = .66, +.8, = 1.46 beginning of upper third.

      Take your basal temp, first thing in the AM, before you get up to pee/have sex/let the dog out; If its before 97.7, your thyroid's not up to snuff.
      Chief cook & bottle washer for one kid, a dog, 6 hens, 2 surprise! roosters, two horses, and a random 'herd' of quail.

      ~The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something one knows nothing about and refuses to investigate~

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Katie82 View Post
        I just got these results over the phone. The nurse I spoke to said everything was "normal". Yay, so why do I still feel like crap?

        Free T3 -2.9 Ref Range 2.3-4.2
        Free T4 -1.2 Ref Range .8-1.8
        Thyroglobulin antibodies-no value, just <20 which is normal
        TSH receptor antibodies-no value, <6.0, again normal

        CRP-.64, <.80 normal

        Are these numbers really okay?. They look fine, I really thought something would come back out of range. Now I don't know where to go from here. I have another appt on monday with another doctor.
        Just wanted some opinions from the experts here at MDA if this is really "normal", not just within range. Thoughts?
        Oh yeah, My TSH when measured on the 1st was 2.4. I have a lot of low thyroid symptoms, the worst being chronic fatigue, and "brain fog". Maybe there's something else causing me to be so tired.
        stats....

        whats your height, weight and sample daily menu....
        Get on my Level
        http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

        Comment


        • #5
          Your FT4 is at 40% of it's range. FT3 is at 32%. Since these numbers are close, it appears you convert. You can help conversion by eating at least 50 grams of carbs/day and getting 200mcg selenium/day.

          Some people feel fine with your numbers. Other people need to be at or above midrange. Midrange for your lab's FT4 is 1.3. For FT3, 3.25.

          How does your vitamin D level look? Hematocrit, hemoglobin, ferritin, fasting blood sugar, HbA1c? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you eating any goitrogenic foods? Is there any possibility that your sex hormones are low? Having issues with any of these things can cause fatigue and/or brain fog.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Eklecktika View Post
            They may be normal, all right, but normal and optimal are two different things.

            Free T3 you typically want at or above the top end fo the range-the range, once upon a time, went up to 6.2. Ranges are statistically derived, they have no basis in optimal functionality.

            Free T4 you typically want in the upper third. 1.8-.8 = 1.00, /3 = .33, *2 = .66, +.8, = 1.46 beginning of upper third.

            Take your basal temp, first thing in the AM, before you get up to pee/have sex/let the dog out; If its before 97.7, your thyroid's not up to snuff.
            So my TSH I would assume is a little high (based on what's optimal, not the ref ranges) and my FT3 and FT4 are a bit low. Maybe I can get my doc to give me a trial of synthroid at a low dose. If I'm converting T4 properly then just taking T4 would help, right? And I know my temperature has always run low, all day, all the time. 97.8 is my norm but I will buy a mercury thermometer tonight and take 3 days of morning temps to bring to my appointment monday. Thanks for reminding me of that!

            Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
            stats....

            whats your height, weight and sample daily menu....
            I think my weight and height is irrelevant really. All of this started after my twin pregnancy 2.5 years ago. I know I had mild hormonal imbalances before then but the pregnancy threw all of my hormones way off course and nothing has been quite right ever since. I weigh the same now as I did pre pregnancy but feel 10x worse.

            Originally posted by marcadav View Post
            Your FT4 is at 40% of it's range. FT3 is at 32%. Since these numbers are close, it appears you convert. You can help conversion by eating at least 50 grams of carbs/day and getting 200mcg selenium/day.

            Some people feel fine with your numbers. Other people need to be at or above midrange. Midrange for your lab's FT4 is 1.3. For FT3, 3.25.

            How does your vitamin D level look? Hematocrit, hemoglobin, ferritin, fasting blood sugar, HbA1c? Are you getting enough sleep? Are you eating any goitrogenic foods? Is there any possibility that your sex hormones are low? Having issues with any of these things can cause fatigue and/or brain fog.
            Thanks for doing the percentages, now it makes sense to me. I didn't know how to tell if I was converting correctly. My vitamin D is low at 21. I'm working on that. I am slightly iron deficient anemic but I'm taking iron now for that as well. A1c I think was 5.6
            I don't know about my sex hormones (not sure which ones those would be). I know I've had irregular periods for 10 years ever since starting to eat meat again after being a veg for 7 years (weird, huh?). Anyway, during my pregnancy I had PCOS symptoms (hair growth, acne). My doctor said there were cysts on my ovaries also but they all went away a few months after delivery. Since then I've had irregular periods, heavy bleeding, most of the hair has gone away though and no more acne. My periods have become more normal since starting primal as well so I think the PCOS is getting better though not gone. Nobody ever measured my hormones. My doctor just told me I had PCOS and I believed her becasue my symptoms matched.
            Most goitrogenic foods I eat are cooked and I try not to eat too much of those.
            And I sleep fairly well. 7-9 hrs a night (still tired in the morning) and a nap during the day most days (still tired) I'm not sleeping too much because if I sleep less than this I feel worse.

            I know the best thing I can do to rebalance hormones is to eat primal, low carb but not too low carb. Just keep regular, even blood sugars, reduce stress, and get enough rest but I'm doing that. I've been doing that and I just feel like I may need some help from thyroid hormones to help me lose weight which will help me regain energy. It's just a cycle that I'm having troube breaking out of with diet alone. I don't have the energy to exercise...at all. Though I still do walk a few times a week I feel like i am dragging myself around. Now I just need to get my doctor to agree that I need this and hope that it helps.

            Comment


            • #7
              Katie,
              Having an average temperature of 97.8 would be considered normal. 98.6 is an average of normal body temps.

              You say you had mild hormonal imbalances prior to your twin pregnancy. What actual hormones were out of whack-thyroid, sex (testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, FSH)? Was this imbalance because your hormones were high or low?How do you know that your pregnancy threw your hormones off course--tests, or feelings, symptoms?

              I'm not sure thyroid hormone supplementation is the route to take, at this time, given your other issues-- anemia, low vitamin D, PCOS, etc. Getting vitamin D and iron levels optimized has been shown to improve thyroid function.

              Being on meds for thyroid does not mean you will lose weight easier, be less fatigued, etc. I actually gained most of my weight after being diagnosed hypo.

              MalPaz has a point. If you are not eating enough and/or not enough carbs you can develop ESS-euthyroid sick syndrome, also known as NTIS-non-thyroidal illness syndrome:
              http://www.thyroidmanager.org/Chapter5/chapter_5b.htm
              Last edited by marcadav; 10-22-2010, 07:25 PM. Reason: add additional comment

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Katie82 View Post
                I think my weight and height is irrelevant really. All of this started after my twin pregnancy 2.5 years ago. I know I had mild hormonal imbalances before then but the pregnancy threw all of my hormones way off course and nothing has been quite right ever since. I weigh the same now as I did pre pregnancy but feel 10x worse. .
                not irrelevant which is why i asked and why i do also see you cant answer which leads me to believe youre self diagnosing yourself as having problems which should be fixed nutritionally, not with pills
                Get on my Level
                http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by marcadav View Post
                  Katie,
                  Having an average temperature of 97.8 would be considered normal. 98.6 is an average of normal body temps.

                  You say you had mild hormonal imbalances prior to your twin pregnancy. What actual hormones were out of whack-thyroid, sex (testosterone, estradiol, progesterone, FSH)? Was this imbalance because your hormones were high or low?How do you know that your pregnancy threw your hormones off course--tests, or feelings, symptoms?

                  I'm not sure thyroid hormone supplementation is the route to take, at this time, given your other issues-- anemia, low vitamin D, PCOS, etc. Getting vitamin D and iron levels optimized has been shown to improve thyroid function.

                  Being on meds for thyroid does not mean you will lose weight easier, be less fatigued, etc. I actually gained most of my weight after being diagnosed hypo.
                  I don't really know. I am just assuming based on symptoms before my pregnancy. Like my previously blonde, straight hair started getting darker, coarser and frizzy in my early twenties. My irregular periods, weight gain around my stomach that I had increasing difficulty getting rid of despite diet and exercise. Also I started gettting hypoglycemia so I had blood sugar problems. My triglycerides and cholesterol were also high. When I went to the doctor for all these things he measured my cholesterol, did a CBC and said I'm fine but eat less fat because of the high cholesterol :/. I had no clue. Only looking back can I see how these things were all connected to hormones going off balance.
                  During my pregnancy I was diagnosed with PCOS but my doctor only told me what symptoms it causes, not about the links to diabetes, low thyroid or insulin resistnace. Nothing, never mentioned how to prevent it from getting worse. I also had gestational diabetes but it was easy to control with diet.
                  After my pregnancy I actually think I went into a state of hyperthyroid. I was constantly wired, eating constantly and losing weight faster than ever. I lost all preg weight plus 25 lbs in 2 months. Unfortunately that didn't last and I gained it all back plus 35 over the next year despite NO changes in diet. I was too busy with twin babies to bother trying to change my diet and just ate the same as always. That's why I say my hormones have been crazy because it's not right to lose and gain that much weight with no effort either way. I also broke out in acne everywhere and I normally never have acne, That went away after a few months. My periods were also worse than ever. I think I only got about 3 or 4 a year for the first two years and they are sometimes very heavy (which is probably why I'm anemic).
                  Anyway, I really need to get my hormones measured. I have symptoms of low progesterone, and probably high testosterone from the PCOS I guess. I just want to get rid of all this. And the fatigue is really taking over my life. I have trouble just keeping up with my kids and the housework and I feel like I am not being a good mother because of all this. I just don't have the energy. I never believed in taking drugs and I thought I could help all this on my own through primal, and getting rest and everything but it's been about 7 months with only small improvements. I would take any drug that would help in any way at this point. I am just sick of not being me anymore if that makes sense.

                  Oh, and about nutritional deficiencies I'm sure I was severely deficient in everything by the end of my pregnancy. My nails barely grew and what did grow was soft and spongy, kinda gross. My OB told me not to take double prenatals despite double babies and I remember being anemic but not being able to take the iron. I looked really sick the whole time and had quite a bit of muscle loss and I'm sure bone loss since my bones have also hurt ever since.
                  I just kept thinking I needed time to recover from the "twin assault" on my body but I never really did.

                  Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                  not irrelevant which is why i asked and why i do also see you cant answer which leads me to believe youre self diagnosing yourself as having problems which should be fixed nutritionally, not with pills
                  MalPaz, I guess I just see my weight as irrelevant since i think of it as a symptom and not a cause. Most of my life I was quite thin. It's only been the last 7 or 8 years that I started having problems and I feel like it's been mostly out of my control but here's my stats. I'm 5'7". My weight has been hovering around 215-220. I started out this year at 250. The weight has come off in spurts seemingly unrelated to what I eat. Maybe more related to what nutrients I'm taking in and how much sleep I'm getting. Eating primal and lower carb is the only thing that has even worked this much in the past few years. Lately I'm stuck and I've been feeling worse which led me to seek help from doctors. It's turning out to be a waste of time and money though.
                  Food I don't really think about anymore. I don't eat fruit or nuts much, minimal dairy but I really should have none. A typical day is sausage or eggs with coffee for breakfast. Sometimes leftover meat, veggies or fish. Lunch is almost always salad with whatever veggies we have and tuna, or fish with spinach. Dinner is where I get most of my veggies and meat. We have chili, taco salad, roast chicken with sweet potatoes or squash and steak with veg quite often. I don't really snack, I just eat good portions at my meals and try to vary what we eat but I probably need more variety of vegetables.
                  What do you think I need more of to fix this nutritionally? I agree that I should be able to work all this out with proper diet/lifestyle but lately I just haven't felt so sure of that and I'm not sure what more I can do.
                  How did I get this way to begin with? Well, I was a vegetarian eating tons of soy foods for most of my teenage years. Although I looked healthy and thin I think it caught up with me and I was too late to fix it and also didn't know how for the last 8 years. I also was quite eating disordered bouncing back and forth from anorexic to bulimic tendencies. I really did a number on my body and I had no idea I was so unfit for a pregnancy, nevermind a twin pregnancy. I'm just glad my girls are completely normal and I'm the one suffering the consequences.
                  Does this help? I feel like i just wrote a book

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Katie,
                    Have you researched postpartum thyroiditis?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes I have looked at postpartum thyroiditis. My pattern of being hyperthyroid first seems to match well but it's been 2.5 years and I had mild thyroid symptoms before so I'm not sure. My doctor didn't do all the antibody tests but I'm going to assume I don't have autoimune thyroiditis so I may be recovering still. It's impossible to know without having old thyroid tests to compare. I also have signs of adrenal fatigue. I started getting gray hairs during my pregnancy and wrinkles around my eyes
                      Anyway, If taking replacement thyroid hormones is not a good idea then what is? Optimizing nutrition and getting rest doesn't appear to be enough. Maybe there are some natural thyroid supporting herbs or something I should be taking? I don't know. I am just looking for something to boost what I'm already doing.
                      I already take vitamin D, zinc, mag, b complex with vitamin C, iron, ALA, fish oil though not so much since I started eating more fish. I use coconut oil whenever I can (not sure if that really helps thyroid).

                      I bought a basal thermometer and left it under my arm this morning for 10 min. 96.8. I'll keep track of it from now on and I will get my sex hormones tested if my doctor agrees. i guess that would be a start.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        girl that helped a ton.... i was itching at the eating disorder tendencies....thyroid/adrenals aside you said yourself lowcarb paleo WORKS for you...then that should be your answer. i think as it sounds your VERY insulin resistant...the only way to fix that is a HIGH fat paleo approach until you lose excess weight, at which point your insulin sensitivity improves, your thyroid comes into balance etc etc...

                        you sound like youre thinking on this a lot, and thats going to cause a lot of unneeded stress. the mind to body to health connection is real, like the opitomy of getting well.

                        i definitely 'reccommend' you eat a lot of organs(beef liver), tallow, small sweettaters with lots fat, coconut products, fish, seaweed. focuse on nutrients, not calories or food.

                        i just hate to see people go the 'thyroid' route sosososooooooo often because once you start it does not end, ever. youll be messing and screwing with it the rest of your life and i have a feeling it ultimately will put you worse than you started. also, i wouldnt put much into the temp thing a high or low temp is a 'symptom' of like 32948652834659283465023845 things.

                        sex hormones, yea good idea....thats expensive so make sure you get the right tests
                        Get on my Level
                        http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Katie82 View Post
                          Anyway, If taking replacement thyroid hormones is not a good idea then what is?
                          Katie, I know this is hard. I am also a mother of twins. I was diagnosed hypo 10 years ago and kept under medicated for years. It's only been in the last 2 years through education and getting everything aligned (I had low vitamin D, low ferritin, low estradiol, and most likely pre-diabetes)that I can finally say I feel normal. I also made a conscious choice to take losing weight out of the equation, though, through getting healthy, I've lost weight.

                          This is what I would do:
                          1.Take enough Vitamin D/day to equal what gets prescribed for very low levels. I was prescribed 50,000IU to be taken once a week.
                          2. Increase the amount of iron I was taking and look into Cillakat's recommendation's
                          3. Use an online calculator to see how many calories I should be eating a day and then stay close to that amount.Track if necessary.
                          4. Make sure I eat at least 50 grams of carbs and get 200mcg of selenium daily. Most multivitamins contain that amount of selenium, as does 2 brazil nuts.
                          5. Consider buying an inexpensive blood glucose meter and track fasting and post prandial levels. Walmart has meters for under $10 and 50 strips for $20.
                          6. Educate myself on Thyroid, PCOS, anemia etc.

                          I would do this very consistently for 3 months. I would eating Primally but not worry about weight, as my goal would be to heal the issues I was experiencing. After 3 months I would have the following tests done and the starred ones done IF symptoms are still not improving;
                          Vitamin D
                          Hematocrit, hemoglobin, ferritin
                          Fasting blood sugar, fasting insulin, Hb1AC
                          *TSH, FT4, FT3, thyroid antibodies*
                          *Estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, FSH*

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Katie82 you sound so much like me

                            Katie82 I feel your pain, so much.
                            Reading your story was so interesting bc i have pretty much the same thing as you, only I've never had kids.
                            I am 5'8 and now 187 pounds ( was 200, went down to 176, now I'm back up despite being a faithful paleo eater)
                            I was finally diagnosed with PCOS last May. Diagnosed with Celiac 6 weeks ago. Eating so strictly and I'm still 187 pounds!!! And exhausted. Vitamin D levels at 25.5. I was given a tentative MS diagnosis which is extermely iffy.
                            T4 1.07
                            T3 2.9

                            Always exhausted.
                            Progesterone (too little)
                            Testeosterone (too much)

                            Yes, to other responders, katie and i must be extrmely insulin resistant. that comes with PCOS territory.

                            I feel like a human lab experiment. I dont know what else I can do to lose the weight. Paleo seemed so promising and now it just seems useless. I do eat a lot of steamed broccoli and cabbage, which maybe slows the thyroid. But I'm supposed to havea lot of veggies because it riases sex hormone binding globulin, which helps flush out testosterone.

                            My new doctor, who I really like, says my thyroid is on the very low end of normal and gave me 1 gram of naturethroid daily. I just started 2 days ago.

                            I dont know what else to do to lose weight or how to tell if i need to up thyroid...my skin is dry, i'm often very sluggish and depressed. could adrenals be overloaded??? i wonder if anything has helped you by now, i didnt check the dates of your posting...

                            if anyone has any tips, let me know. and good luck katie, if i find anythign that works I'll let you know!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Katie - You're at the low end of the range, and some people feel lousy unless they're at the top of the range (when I'm in the lower half, my hair falls out like crazy). Don't take any replacement thyroid until you hop over to Grizz's Iodine thread and read the whole thing and all of the links.

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