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  • News on chronic high-fat diet

    Hi everyone,

    I just found this article (Chronic high-fat diet in fathers programs β-cell dysfunction in female rat offspring):
    http://www.nature.com/nature/journal...ture09491.html

    This is against everything I learned in the past year and which I whole-heartedly believe in. I don't have access to Nature. Perhaps someone with an account can clear a few things up. Like, what is the actual high fat diet? Why would a HFD impact insulin sensitivity?

    Why would they publish such crap?

    Thanks,
    Cornell
    Originally posted by Gary Taubes
    If you work out the numbers, you come to the surreal conclusion that you can eat lard straight from the can and conceivably reduce your risk of heart disease.

  • #2
    I don't have access to the full article either, but a rat's diet isn't of particular interest to me.
    I used to seriously post here, now I prefer to troll.

    Comment


    • #3
      What sort of fat? What else was being tested / accounted for? If it was fats we consider good, in a diet I'd consider optimal, I'd worry. If,as I suspect, it is a diet high in trans fats, omega 6 and grains - utter crap science.

      Comment


      • #4
        RE: "why would they publish this", generally articles get peer reviewed and if the reviewers consider it well-done research, they get published. To me this looks like interesting, novel research -- especially with the intergenerational aspect.

        I wouldn't automatically declare it crap, but whether this is directly relevant to humans and particularly to PB very much would depend on what the rest of the diet was like (as breadsauce just said.) I mean, there are lots of ways to eat fattening (and not necessarily high-fat) diets that I'm sure are horrifyingly bad for you.

        Judging from this article, it seems like the father's obesity itself may be altering gene expression or some other aspect of sperm quality that then increases glucose issues in daughters.

        The fathers got the high-fat diets in order to make them obese before reproducing -- in other words, they got more calories and got fat -- I'd consider that a key point. It'd be interesting to do follow-up research to see if obesity acquired through other macronutrient profiles (like a high-carb diet) had the same negative effect on the offspring (my bet? Yes!)
        "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

        Comment


        • #5
          They apparently also fed the high-fat father rats 40% more calories than the low-fat father rats got. So not just fat in and of itself, but overeating could be a cause of this...

          http://www.physorg.com/news/2010-10-...dium=statusnet

          Comment


          • #6
            "Male F0 founders were assigned to a HFD (SF01-025, SF03-020; 40.7%, 43% energy as fat; Speciality Feeds) or control (Gordon’s Stockfeeds) diet at 4 weeks of age."

            This is the only information in the paper on what the rats were fed.

            EDIT: For information on SF01-025 and SF03-020 feeds. I can't find the information on the Gordon Stockfeeds one.
            http://www.specialtyfeeds.com/custdiets/ratmouse.html

            I am a little bit confused because the SF03-020 feed is 60% dextrose.
            Last edited by lcme; 10-21-2010, 11:50 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thanks for the replies so far. Of course I know about the different fats and dependence on the other parts of the diet. That's why I ask what the actual HFD they talk about is. Thanks goingprimal for the second link, which clarifies that the difference of the diets is not only in composotion, but also in total caloric intake.

              It's good to know that you harm your future children when you're obese. But their implication that obesity is because of a high fat diet is IMHO false, and I guess you all agree on that.
              Last edited by neophilus; 10-21-2010, 11:47 AM.
              Originally posted by Gary Taubes
              If you work out the numbers, you come to the surreal conclusion that you can eat lard straight from the can and conceivably reduce your risk of heart disease.

              Comment


              • #8
                As far as I know from most of the fat-and-rats studies, the "high fat" treatment involves pouring Crisco over normal rat food. Hard to say if this is similar or not, but since they didn't specify type of fat it's hard to say. These studies should be done on pigs though if they want to begin to extrapolate to human diets.
                If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                Comment


                • #9
                  Oh wait, just from the abstract this is NOT about high fat diets at all! It's a test of the hypothesis that metabolic derangement can be passed from fathers to offspring! Very interesting research, why the hell they need to include "high fat diet" in the title is totally beyond me though.
                  If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    The "high fat diet" used two different foods, providing 40.7% or 43% energy from fat. They didn't write anything else about it. I looked up the first one, and here are the ingredients: "Wheat, Lupins, Barley, Soya meal, Canola meal, Cocoa butter, Canola oil, Salt, Calcium carbonate, Dicalcium phosphate, Magnesium oxide, and a Vitamin and mineral premix." The other is similar, but with less starchy stuff and more sugar.

                    The control diet is "Gordon's Stockfeeds" - yeah, that's all they said. I did a little googling and it's probably this one: 6% calories from fat, 21% calories from protein, 71% calories from carbohydrate.

                    The mice on the "high" fat diet ended up weighing 22% more than the control mice. My first thought is that it could be that obesity itself, or any number of obesity-related conditions, led to the effect that was seen. (Replace "obesity" with "overweight" if they aren't technically obese - I don't know how they classify mice.)

                    I haven't read the whole thing, I just was curious about the diet so I looked it up yesterday. So I can't comment on how good the science is, but if it made it into Nature, it can't be too awful.

                    If you want the article, PM me your email address.
                    "mayness, you need to have a siggy line that says "Paleo Information Desk" or something!" -FMN <3

                    I'm blogging again, at least a little bit.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by tfarny View Post
                      Oh wait, just from the abstract this is NOT about high fat diets at all! It's a test of the hypothesis that metabolic derangement can be passed from fathers to offspring! Very interesting research, why the hell they need to include "high fat diet" in the title is totally beyond me though.
                      Throughout the paper they talk about HFD fathers.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yeah, they keep harping on the HFD, which I _guess_ makes sense since the difference between the two groups was how they were fed. But it's not just how they were fed, it was the result of that feeding; the HFD rats got more calories and ended up obese. So the obesity is a factor too, as is the high calorie. Could just as easily call them HCD (high calorie diet)

                        That's why I suggest running the same study with obese father rats who got obese through various methods (more carbs, more protein, more food of the same type...) That would establish whether it's the obesity or the actual macronutrient profile that makes the difference. ... for rats anyway...

                        For example -- did these father rats end up with diabetes due to their obesity and the presence of that diabetes is the key factor in their reproductive gene expression? Etc. etc...

                        And yeah, I'd love to see similar studies done in pigs.
                        Last edited by Jenny; 10-21-2010, 01:36 PM.
                        "Trust me, you will soon enter a magical land full of delicious steakflowers, with butterbacons fluttering around over the extremely rompable grass and hillsides."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          And there is the issue of the 60% dextrose feed. Does anyone understand animal feeding in studies? I posted the info and the links to the feeds on page 1, but I can't seem to get what's going on and what the HFD rats were ACTUALLY eating.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            No, you guys are also getting sidetracked in just the way that the misleading study title intends. They fed the fathers too much, made them fat and metabolically damaged, then examined the health of their offspring. It's epigenetic stuff, has nothing to do with high fat / low fat.
                            If you are new to the PB - please ignore ALL of this stuff, until you've read the book, or at least http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-blueprint-101/ and this (personal fave): http://www.archevore.com/get-started/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abstract
                              Chronic HFD consumption in Sprague–Dawley fathers induced increased body weight, adiposity, impaired glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity
                              This is the key sentence from the abstract. If you're not suffering these symptoms and you're male, you're not endangering your unborn daughters
                              Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

                              Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

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