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  • Why no dairy?

    I've cut down on my dairy intake after listening to Robb Wolf and reading PB. But I just ordered some protein powder and while I meant to get egg, I got whey instead. Since I've never had any problems with dairy in terms of obvious stuff, can anyone tell me why I should avoid it altogether?
    http://healthymindfitbody.com
    "Achieve your perfect weight through the mind-body connection!"

  • #2
    There is no reason to avoid it unless you cannot tolerate it. If it does not make you gassy,full of mucus, upset your stomach, or make you feel bad then there is no need to avoid it.

    There are better dairy choices than others. I put milk on the VERY bottom (I avoid this completely) but put a good aged cheese very high on the list.

    Fermented dairy such as greek yogurt and kefir can be very nutritious.

    Enjoy dairy if it works for you.

    Oh yeah, I also listen to and read everything Robb Wolf puts out and while he personally doesn't do dairy he has no problem recommending it to people who can tolerate it. He puts it first on the things to eliminate when attempting to determine sensitivities but has no problem with adding it back to diet once its determined to be tolerated well by the body.

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    • #3
      The main reason that I see is that dairy is calorie dense and can be avoided. I personally like cheese and find that cottage cheese especially is a great source of protein.
      http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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      • #4
        I do not, however, drink milk on a regular basis. Although it was before I went primal the dairy industry was forced to lay off a cow (Bossy and they called it putting her out to pasture) when I did quit drinking it. I am a recovered milk fiend.
        http://www.facebook.com/daemonized

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        • #5
          Originally posted by MonkeyGuy View Post
          ... can anyone tell me why I should avoid it altogether?
          Because Cordain says so? To be really frank that seems to be what it boils down to.

          Have a look at this piece by Dr. Kurt Harris at the PaNu blog:

          http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2...-of-dairy.html

          Dr. Harris says, and I see exactly what he means

          If I have a problem with Cordain's methodology, it's that he seems to decide that something should be bad, then marshalls everything he can find to prove it so.
          You can find problems with dairy, or at least some forms of it for at least some people. But you can probably find something wrong with most foodstuffs - which doesn't mean they're bad in practice.

          As Chris Masterjohn commented on his blog recently, when talking about some of the stuff Campbell's pulled with animal protein and rats:

          I suggest we call this type of logic "Pulling a Campbell." We perform a reductionist study and form a "holistic" conclusion. God forbid we insist on performing a holistic study in order to form a holistic conclusion -- that would be far too "reductionist."
          http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...-is-sweet.html

          Is all animal protein bad (even in moderate quantities in the form in which you get it in real foods)? No.

          So, yeah, there are problems ... but it helps if you've decided in advance that a food is "out".

          If you find dairy foods problematic don't use them at all. However, for many people they seem to be fine - and a good source of many important nutrients. To cut a long story short - unhomogenized, raw (unpasteurized) milk from cows that are grass-fed is better than what's in the supermarkets these days. Even better than that is milk from real old-fashioned dairy breeds, like Jerseys, or from goats or ewes. (It's a long story - it seems there can be problems with the proteins in milk from cows like Holsteins.) Fermented dairy products, like cheese and yoghurt, may be more digestible. Butter is a very good resource - if from cows that've been on good grass it'll be high in vitamin K and all that.

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          • #6
            I made a thing!

            (BAD)<Skim milk----------whole milk----------full-fat yogurt----------heavy cream----------cheese----------butter>(GOOD)
            You lousy kids! Get off my savannah!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Lewis View Post
              Because Cordain says so? To be really frank that seems to be what it boils down to.

              Have a look at this piece by Dr. Kurt Harris at the PaNu blog:

              http://www.paleonu.com/panu-weblog/2...-of-dairy.html

              Dr. Harris says, and I see exactly what he means



              You can find problems with dairy, or at least some forms of it for at least some people. But you can probably find something wrong with most foodstuffs - which doesn't mean they're bad in practice.

              As Chris Masterjohn commented on his blog recently, when talking about some of the stuff Campbell's pulled with animal protein and rats:



              http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.c...-is-sweet.html

              Is all animal protein bad (even in moderate quantities in the form in which you get it in real foods)? No.

              So, yeah, there are problems ... but it helps if you've decided in advance that a food is "out".

              If you find dairy foods problematic don't use them at all. However, for many people they seem to be fine - and a good source of many important nutrients. To cut a long story short - unhomogenized, raw (unpasteurized) milk from cows that are grass-fed is better than what's in the supermarkets these days. Even better than that is milk from real old-fashioned dairy breeds, like Jerseys, or from goats or ewes. (It's a long story - it seems there can be problems with the proteins in milk from cows like Holsteins.) Fermented dairy products, like cheese and yoghurt, may be more digestible. Butter is a very good resource - if from cows that've been on good grass it'll be high in vitamin K and all that.
              Very good, comprehensive post, thank you!
              http://healthymindfitbody.com
              "Achieve your perfect weight through the mind-body connection!"

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Grumpy Caveman View Post
                I made a thing!

                (BAD)<Skim milk----------whole milk----------full-fat yogurt----------heavy cream----------cheese----------butter>(GOOD)
                hahahaha money...... i love dairy. the only thing i find my body finds sucky about it is the massive salt load. i get thirsty, real thirsty after i eat a lot of dairy(usually around 500 cals in a sittin- dont hate lol)
                Get on my Level
                http://malpaz.wordpress.com/

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                • #9
                  Because you might get acne, have digestion issues (gas), more body odor, congestion and energetically feel like you are looking around for mommy.

                  ps - even butter.
                  Last edited by TigerJ; 10-20-2010, 02:02 PM.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Grumpy Caveman View Post
                    I made a thing!

                    (BAD)<Skim milk----------whole milk----------full-fat yogurt----------heavy cream----------cheese----------butter>(GOOD)
                    NICE thing!
                    Redflame
                    Started PB Aug 9, 2010 then let 'stuff' get in the way
                    Back to start and make a fantastic 2012
                    Goal of Significant Weight Loss
                    15 pounds down! with more to go!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by MalPaz View Post
                      hahahaha money...... i love dairy. the only thing i find my body finds sucky about it is the massive salt load. i get thirsty, real thirsty after i eat a lot of dairy(usually around 500 cals in a sittin- dont hate lol)
                      Another of your peculiar posts - what "massive salt load"...? The US of A must be a very odd place if cream, milk, and yoghurt contain salt! Most whey cheeses don't contain salt (ricotta, mascarpone, mozzarella (at least the stuff I buy doesn't contain any salt)) Even Cheddar is only 1.7g salt per 100g. I often eat 500kcals of dairy in one go - and consume zero salt! 500kcals of Cheddar is about 125g (4.5oz) and just 2.1g salt.

                      Most dairy I buy doesn't contain any salt at all. Total, ricotta, cream, cottage cheese, butter, mozzarella, mascarpone, roquefort, St Agur - if fact all I can think of is Cheddar.

                      What do you eat then that's so salty...?
                      La tristesse durera toujours...

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Shrinking_Violet View Post
                        Another of your peculiar posts - what "massive salt load"...? The US of A must be a very odd place if cream, milk, and yoghurt contain salt! Most whey cheeses don't contain salt (ricotta, mascarpone, mozzarella (at least the stuff I buy doesn't contain any salt)) Even Cheddar is only 1.7g salt per 100g. I often eat 500kcals of dairy in one go - and consume zero salt! 500kcals of Cheddar is about 125g (4.5oz) and just 2.1g salt.

                        Most dairy I buy doesn't contain any salt at all. Total, ricotta, cream, cottage cheese, butter, mozzarella, mascarpone, roquefort, St Agur - if fact all I can think of is Cheddar.

                        What do you eat then that's so salty...?
                        A lot of our processed diary that you buy at the normal market contains quite a bit of salt, especially things like cottage cheese.
                        For lots of tasty recipes, check out my blog -http://lifeasadreger.wordpress.com/

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                        • #13
                          Wolf says that if you have autoimmune/inflammation issues and or metabolic derangement, you have GOT to stay away from dairy. (His emphasis.) And also if you are trying to lean out. Dairy is inflammatory, insulinogenic, and the whole purpose of it is to grow. I think it's his podcast #17 where he really gets into the science here.

                          If you are trying to bulk up and/or don't have the above medical concerns, then OK (sort of). I have heard him recommend milk and cheese (on a short-term basis) to a dude trying to bulk up.

                          He challenges everyone to give it up for 30 days and see what happens to your body.

                          There is a live thread over in "odds and ends" right now where I list out the episodes and times for most of the dairy questions and Wolf's answers on his podcasts. This topic came up yet again on the most recent podcast released just yesterday.

                          As for me personally, it's made a surprising difference in my body. I def. say give it a go for 30 days.
                          "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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                          • #14
                            @Grumpy: I would flip the heavy cream and cheese around on your "thing"; other than that, good.
                            "Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food." -- Hippocrates

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                            • #15
                              Don't mess with my cheese!!!
                              I just finished robbs book, & I have listened to his shtick on the podcsts in depth. I am now bored with him. He is so passionate about all of this I believe because he is what we used to call a "dairy fairy" & i just made up..." a wheat wuss". I have followed his teachings leaning more towards primal than paleo. However I have no symptoms of what he calls " leaky gut" & all the other problems that he used to suffer. So I say if you have the allergic reactions that he speaks of, than by all means drink his Kool Aid, but if you are trying to live well, happy , & long, than I am all for the Mark sisson 20% & enjoy yourself thing. I am so over Robb Wolf. I definately O.D.'d on the podcasts, & I found the book aimed toward people that have no knowledge of paleo or primal lifestyle.
                              "Don't dream it, be it"

                              -Dr. Frank-N-Furter

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